To Be or Not To Be a "Turning Newbie" ?

[Blackbeered]

I'm new to this website, so I apologize in advance if my thread-posting etiquette is poor.

Here's my quandary ... should I buy a lathe solely to equip it with a duplicator strictly to make legs and spindles for my furniture-making [desks, tables, cabinets, beds, shelves, interior/exterior doors, planters, Adirondack-type chairs] ?

Being "anal retentive", everything's been square/tapered, well-trimmed out, or parts sculpted with a bandsaw and spindle sander and then duplicated on the table router. Gets kinda boring after 40+ years.

Having too much money and too much space, I've been itching to add either [a] a 5 HP shaper and/or a 36-42" lathe equipped with a Vega duplicator [my understanding is that I'd be able to go up to 4"x4" blanks with this set up]. Ten years from the urn, I have NO interest in becoming a "turner", no interest in making pens and bowls; and I make plenty of sawdust now.

I have two projects in the queue for the Fall which could possibly use the turnings: table for the foyer and queen bed.

So, take the plunge or stick with what I do best? What woods turn best with a duplicator [I keep cypress, cherry, maple, walnut, red and white oak, ash, sweet gum, poplar, and some pear on hand at all times]. Another question ... where can I buy templates or PDF files from which to make templates for these parts?

Thanks

 

[Stuart Kent]

I'm new to this website, so I apologize in advance if my thread-posting etiquette is poor.

Here's my quandary ... should I buy a lathe solely to equip it with a duplicator strictly to make legs and spindles for my furniture-making [desks, tables, cabinets, beds, shelves, interior/exterior doors, planters, Adirondack-type chairs] ?

Being "anal retentive", everything's been square/tapered, well-trimmed out, or parts sculpted with a bandsaw and spindle sander and then duplicated on the table router. Gets kinda boring after 40+ years.

Having too much money and too much space, I've been itching to add either [a] a 5 HP shaper and/or a 36-42" lathe equipped with a Vega duplicator [my understanding is that I'd be able to go up to 4"x4" blanks with this set up]. Ten years from the urn, I have NO interest in becoming a "turner", no interest in making pens and bowls; and I make plenty of sawdust now.

I have two projects in the queue for the Fall which could possibly use the turnings: table for the foyer and queen bed.

So, take the plunge or stick with what I do best? What woods turn best with a duplicator [I keep cypress, cherry, maple, walnut, red and white oak, ash, sweet gum, poplar, and some pear on hand at all times]. Another question ... where can I buy templates or PDF files from which to make templates for these parts?

Thanks

I approach these questions in my shop by asking myself the following:
1. will the machine pay for itself through the work it produces, in a timely manner, without putting a strain on personal or shop finances?(i.e. return on investment)
2. how much will the machine cost to operate with regards to maintenance, specialty tooling, power consumption, a laborer (or me), time to learn, etc?
3. how much square footage will this machine consume in my shop, and can I afford to loose that space? is the trade off a good thing in the long run?
4. will I really use the machine often enough to warrant its purchase?
5. will the machine streamline a process and/or make it safer?
6. will this machine stay in service long term or does it only solve a short term problem?
7. can I sell this machine for a reasonable return if it doesn't make me money? How hard will it be to sell?

Hope this helps,
Stuart.

 

[Mike Davis]

I don't have one, but from what i hear the duplicator will not give you finished furniture quality results. Think of it more as a roughing tool. You will still need to spend some time learning to finish turn the parts.

If you only do a few pieces a month you may consider farming out the bit of turning and concentrate on the parts you can do well at a better ROI.

 

[Blackbeered]

My responses [on the lathe/duplicator]:
1. yes
2. all but "time to learn" are negligible
3. I estimate the footprint of this [immobile] set up, including its operating envelope, to be under 50 sq ft, or less than 4% of my total space and less than 20% of my "free space".
4. aha ... Crux Issue #1
5. probably a trade-off after rising the learning curve; obviously, I'm very comfortable around the router table [3+ HP] and bandsaw
6. at my age, everything is "short-term"
7. aha ... my exit strategy is to firesale everything at 30 cents on the dollar.

So, Stuart, you're a wee bit encouraging. Thx.

 

[Stuart Kent]

(smiles to all of your responses save one)
what the #### is 'at your age'? at the rate of advances in modern medicine, I plan on living at least 300 years.

but just in case, hollar at me before the fire sale starts!

 

[aplpickr]

A lathe capable of turning legs long enough, is a sizeable investment. Have you looked at bulk, turned legs by the wholesalers? 4K$ will buy lots of components.

 

[Blackbeered]

I'm the type that would never farm out. To me, it's not about making money, it's about having others support my hobby.

Specifically related to your point, I wouldn't be doing any intricate work. I see [YouTube] what Charles Neil does with this set up and I think ... "well, isn't that better than a novice trying to get four legs to match on his own."

I just saw a piece that I might adapt for a foyer table ... and when I look at it I say "who the heck needs a lathe".

 

[chris_goris]

I don't have one, but from what i hear the duplicator will not give you finished furniture quality results. Think of it more as a roughing tool. You will still need to spend some time learning to finish turn the parts.

If you only do a few pieces a month you may consider farming out the bit of turning and concentrate on the parts you can do well at a better ROI.[/QUOT

yes, Mike, you are correct, you cannot get a finish on a turned spindle with a duplicator that you can get with a skew, but you can get decent consistency. I have a lathe (PM 3520B) and a duplicator. I havent mounted my duplicator to it yet but had it mounted to my old Delta lathe that preceded my Powermatic. I will say, that machine while it worked with the duplicator, it was too light duty to a decent job. Imade several sets of legs, spindles and ballusters all with decent results, but they do require more sanding. Luckily lathe sanding is easy. Once you get proficient with a spindle gouge and a skew, as well as a set of calipers, duplicating anything with reasonable consistency is relatively easy. Thats where I am trying to get to with my lathe, to not use the duplicator anymore, although I havent had a need for it lately. So, my progress has been slow in that regard.

 

[nn4jw]

It sounds like there's more at stake here than simple ROI for the OP. IF a lathe and duplicator will save production time, IF money isn't the main consideration, IF maximizing enjoyment between now and the urn by saving some time and learning new skills is, IF space isn't really a concern, then go for it. You don't need us to approve that.

 

[smallboat]

yep, from the "too much money, too much space" statement I say all the usual assessments go out the window.
From the "kinda boring after 40+ years" statement it looks like learning something new is at least part of the bargain.
So, which journey is more interesting, the lathe or the shaper?
No doubt the shaper will have nuances that will need to be mastered, but the lathe- that's new beast entirely.

Is the next step gonna be a "stretch" or a "leap"?

 

[Mark Stewart]

(smiles to all of your responses save one)
what the #### is 'at your age'? at the rate of advances in modern medicine, I plan on living at least 300 years.

but just in case, hollar at me before the fire sale starts!

I saw a T-shirt that stated "I Plan To Live Forever! So Far So Good.

 

[SubGuy]

Shaper and a Lathe....
IMHO completely different animals for completely different results. You will find the shaper easier to learn and easier to master....especially with a power feeder and coming from the experience in router work.
But set-up to run one or two pieces on the same profile can be annoying and unproductive. I am in the process of making 92 cherry plaques. The shaper is invaluable in this endeavour.
On the other hand, it has the wonderful flexibility of doing it's namesake...Shaping. With a pattern and a good setup, you can replicate profiles with ease. With good cutters, minimal finishing. It is a true time saver in both regards.

As for the lathe, I am not a "spinny thing" kind of guy...yet. Keyword...yet. I have yet to have time for such an all consuming machine and am quite taxed with my flatwork production as it sits.

I would say, if you MUST have round legs and such, buy it. If you MUST have ease of production and flexibility of shaping and replication on those shapes, get a shaper. But if it were me, in your situation, I would find a home for BOTH!
.....and the power feeder.

 

[chris_goris]

I have BOTH and love them both equally! They're like my kids!

 

[bob vaughan]

Wood turning is a hand skill like wood carving. As a matter of fact, it is hand carving with the work being rotated by power. Its not like flat work where you set up a shaper and feeder and the machine does the work. There's a learning curve then a period of practice of the carving activity before the results are predictable. The square to round transition is impossible on duplicators unless you want chipped edges and gradually sloping angles. Ernie Conover said years ago that the best duplicator was on the ends of your arms. The ones I've used and seen used over the years were more accurately referred to as "hairball approximators".

I recommend you consider contacting the president of the local woodturning club in Richmond. He'll know who does good spindle turning for industry. A big lumber yard with a mill is likely to use someone locally for their turning jobs.

The below turnings were done one at a time without a duplicator. A duplicator would''t be able to reproduce these, particularly where square goes to round and down inside the beads for sharp detail.

 

[Roy G]

If money is no object, find a CNC lathe that will turn what you need. Once you program that baby, it will turn out all the shapes you want finish ready.

Roy G

 

[Stuart Kent]

nice turnings.

 

[Stuart Kent]

I second this if money and space aren't really objects. Call Shopbot in Durham if you want to start small, they make a cnc lathe attachment for one of their machines - plus you would get a sweet 3 axis flat bed in the same package.