Plane iron bevel up or down?

[Alan in Little Washington]

As this post illustrates, I'm not much of a hand tool kinda of guy.

I actually dug out my old Stanley-Bailey #5 and used it to trim the aprons flush with the top of my new bench. For someone who knows almost nothing about planes and how to set them up properly, I was relatively successful and even got some decent curls. I had problems in a couple of areas where there was some grain reversal and got some chip/tear out.

Anyway, what is the recommended bevel on a S-B #5 and how do you install the iron? bevel up or bevel down? Which kind of plane should I have used? What does the #5 nomenclature mean and what is this plane typically used for?

 

[BillPappas]

A bench plane like that would have the blade ground to 25 degrees and the bevel goes down. If the grain reverses plane from the other direction on that area of the board. Or you could get a bevel up plane that can handle that kind of grain change. A #5 is basically a general purpose plane and the number refers to the its relative size...#1 is a small plane and #8 is bigger.

Regards,

Bill

 

[mlzettl]

Alan,

If you're ever in the Morehead City area, stop by and I will give you a short course on hand planes. I have a collection of about 100 hand planes, and I have been using them for 30 years or more. I have block planes, bench planes, rabbet planes, circular planes, router planes, scraper planes, etc. I can explain how to fettle and set up a plane properly for you. It's one of those things that is easier to show you than it is to describe. It also gives you the opportunity to have your hands on a wide variety of planes to get a feel for their use.

Although I use machinery of all types, there is something about a sharp, well tuned hand plane that is immensely satisfying. Additionally, there are some things that are just easier with hand planes, and the end result is better as well. There is much to be said about working in the shop with hand tools - peace and quiet, solitude, and the satisfaction of traditional techniques.

Matt

 

[LeftyTom]

Aren't more bevel up planes showing up these days? The theory being that they can repopulate the Neander ranks with more planes that are easy to set up.

I think block planes were the only that always came bevel up, so you could plane the end grain.

 

[froglips]

Most bench planes are bevel down. An easy way to tell, is the iron sits at about a 45 degree angle. Bevel up planes are "bedded" at 12 to 20 degrees, such as block planes.

A Stanley #5 would be considered a "Jack Plane". Its typically for fast, heavy stock removal. Many folks would use this plane much like you'd use a powered jointer/planer on rough stock.

I'd say you chose a coarse tool to do a fine operation. You might have considered a "smoothing plane" such as a #4 or #4 1/2. The difference, besides bed length (overall length of the plane), is how tight the mouth is (how narrow the opening between the front of the mouth and the cutting edge of the iron).

Tearout is reduced when the mouth/iron gap is smaller. The wider the gap, the more levering action your shaving has.

But, wild grain can also be beyond the work of a smoothing plane. Then you get into the higher pitched bench planes (50 or even 55 degrees) or cabinet scrapers.

One perk of a bevel up bench plane (think block plane, but in a bench plane body) is you can tweak the cutting bevel angle quite easily by regrinding the bevel.

One of the best videos I've seen to get the concepts of planes is Christopher Schwarz Course, Medium, Fine. It wasn't until I saw his video, that I finally "got it".

Jim

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Thanks guys!

Wrong tool for the job!

My plane inventory is:

1. The old Stanley Bailey #5 which needs to be cleaned and the sole probably needs lapping.
2. A small L-N rabbet plane I use for tweaking tenon shoulders
3. A small Veritas apron block plane (I should have used that instead of the #5 to trim down the dovetails after assembly, right?)
4. Some sort of Stanley I picked up at the PX many years ago.

That is four planes and zero knowledge. What a dangerous combination. Maybe I'll ask Santa for a good plane book and/or video- any recommendations?

I have actually learned how to sharpen and use a card scraper! Does that count? :embaresse

 

[Gregory Paolini]

Alan,

As many other here, I too have a bunch of hand planes I use, BUT 95% of the time, I grab my bailey #5 for smoothing.

As mentioned earlier, the number system is generally an indicator of the size of a "bench" plane. Bench planes being bevel down planes, with the blades mounted on a frog.

The bevel you sharpen a bench plane at really doesn't matter too much - See, a bevel down plane actually cuts with the back of the blade anyways, to the bevel you grind the blade at really has more to do with how durable the edge is. I generally sharpen my blades to 25', while a fellow I teach with sharpens his to 35'. They both cut equally well though.

Bevel up planes, such as my LN 164, feel different to the user - To me, I don't feel like I'm in control as much as I do with my bench planes - It think it's becuase I rely on placing my finger on the frog for direction, and with the bevel up plane, there's no frog..

A benfit of bevel up planes though, is you can change the effective cutting angle easily by just regrinding the blade. I usually sharpen my 164 to 25', giving me a 37' cutting angle, which is great on crazy grained woods. But when I'm planing quarter sawn white oak, which the grain tends to lift and chip, I switch to a 50' bevel, yeilding a 62' cutting angle (Bevel + Bed angle= effective cutting angle)

Anyway, there's a whole bunch more, and I could go on all day - Hand planing is my fororite course to teach. It's great when people bring in rusted old baileys, and leave with .0015" shavings.

Hope this helps

 

[froglips]

I think the UGH (Unpowered Galooticus Handplaners) Society gives a bonus of 298 points for card scraper sharpening!

Well done!

Jim

 

[Touchwood]

On the same topic, sort of...

I'm not much of a hand plane user, but I'm getting interested in it because of some awkward machining needed to true up my rocker headrests.

Someone gave me a Sears Craftsman plane years ago. The only markings I see on it are "Made in USA", and numbers in the casting reading "C-557B-0" and KX. It has a wood handle and the bed is about 9" long. Anyone know if this thing is worth tuning up? It's never been used.:dontknow:

At one time Freud sold hand planes and I have two of those..one with a bed about 22" long, the other about 13" long. They were on sale someplace and I thought they were such a bargain!!!!....nuff said. No markings other than Freud.:icon_scra They've never been used either.

Lastly, there's a little 7" long Stanley No.220.

Obviously there's a lot of knowledge and expertise on hand planes on our site. Comments gratefully received.:icon_thum.

I probably should have posted this separately to not get in Alan's way, so maybe a PM response would be better.

Don

 

[Splint Eastwood]

I think the UGH (Unpowered Galooticus Handplaners) Society gives a bonus of 298 points for card scraper sharpening!

Well done!

Jim

Say.......how do you become a membeor of this "Galootical" handplaner rabble? :gar-Bi

Hm......:eusa_thin

 

[froglips]

Matt, you are welcome into UGH. At this time, you qualify as a Junior Member, or a Grunt UGH member.

Don, I copied your post into its own thread. Feel free to edit the title, did my best to make one up.
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f30/help-hand-plane-identification-25771/

Alan, in addition to the Schwarz DVD, Jim Kingshott "Bench Planes" ties neck in neck as my favorite on the subject. Schwarz helps you understand the concepts, Kingshott then helps you understand how to apply them. IMHO of course.

I have read a number of books on planes and making planes. To date, the David Fink book has been my favorite. While walking you through building a Krenov-like plane, he does a great job of explaining how they work.

Jim

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Thanks guys. Hand planes is definitely an area I want to get smarter in and better at.

But before you all think I'm going over to the dark side, I still would rather use my 8" jointer with Shelix cutter head whenever possible!

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Matt, you are welcome into UGH. At this time, you qualify as a Junior Member, or a Grunt UGH member.

Don, I copied your post into its own thread. Feel free to edit the title, did my best to make one up.
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f30/help-hand-plane-identification-25771/

Alan, in addition to the Schwarz DVD, Jim Kingshott "Bench Planes" ties neck in neck as my favorite on the subject. Schwarz helps you understand the concepts, Kingshott then helps you understand how to apply them. IMHO of course.

I have read a number of books on planes and making planes. To date, the David Fink book has been my favorite. While walking you through building a Krenov-like plane, he does a great job of explaining how they work.

Jim

Thank you Jim ! :notworthy:

As a newly minted UGH Jr. Member, I would heretofore like to be known as: G'Looticus Maxximus, the big _ss vintage tool collector. Let it be written, there is no old handtool too large or small to be collected and used. :rotflm::rolf:

 

[peteb301]

So what happens if the power goes out ?? All those 'powered' machines are worthless :gar-La;:gar-La;.
Learn to use FINE hand tools FIRST. Nothing as pretty or satisfying as watching a paper thin curl of Wood coming off of a Fine tuned plane OR a fine tuned chisel. :eusa_danc:eusa_danc:eusa_danc
Read the grain first, prior to use.

 

[Touchwood]

Thanks Jim,

The title's fine. I got busy and took a flock of pictures today and will post them where they belong.:eusa_clap

Don

Matt, you are welcome into UGH. At this time, you qualify as a Junior Member, or a Grunt UGH member.

Don, I copied your post into its own thread. Feel free to edit the title, did my best to make one up.
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f30/help-hand-plane-identification-25771/

Alan, in addition to the Schwarz DVD, Jim Kingshott "Bench Planes" ties neck in neck as my favorite on the subject. Schwarz helps you understand the concepts, Kingshott then helps you understand how to apply them. IMHO of course.

I have read a number of books on planes and making planes. To date, the David Fink book has been my favorite. While walking you through building a Krenov-like plane, he does a great job of explaining how they work.

Jim