Kayak Project

[dino drosas]

I have been thinking about building a strip cedar kayak for some time and after reading Ernie's post, I decided the time was now. I ordered a set of plans and got started this week. Had to build the 2x5 box beam spline out of plywood (17'6"). Then I cut out the stations that the 5/8 x 1/4 strips will be formed to. The assembly you see in the pictures is the spline with the stations threaded on. The stations now have to be all aligned and attached before any stripping gets started. As you can see, this takes up most of the floor space in the shop so I decided to move it to my side porch to do the build. It will mosy likely take several months and I do not want to tie up the entire shop for that long, plus the epoxy process will be quite messy for sure - kind of like using black roofing cement.

 

[rbdoby]

Dino,

This looks very interesting. Are you milling your own strips? Please keep us posted.

Rick Doby

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

That should be fun! Nice work so far. Interesting saw horse weight!

I built a cedar strip canoe many years ago, it was fun and relatively easy to do.

Speaking of milling the strips, if you do your own, are you planning to use the bead and cove router bits made especially for cedar stripping? I saw a jig made with two routers one mounted to the bottom of a board and one to a spacer above it, one with the bead bit the other with the cove. The jig had roller guides to properly position the strips, so it was easy to profile both edges in one pass.

You mentioned epoxy; are they recommending that now instead of polyester resin for the fiberglass? I always thought epoxy deteriorated in UV light so had to be covered with a UV shield primer and paint (like the fiberglass airplane I was building.) You won't want to paint it and cover up the colorful wood patterns!

What design are you building and what are the dimensions?

 

[Gary K]

Looking good Dino! Have you milled you strips yet? Due to space limitation I need to mill strips and store overhead before I assemble my forms on the strongback. Today I am taking my Cape Ann for a paddle before it goes to storage for the duration of my kayak build.

 

[dino drosas]

Gary, I was referring to your initial posting about the kayak instead of Ernie's. Sorry about that - senior moment. I have not yet started milling the strips but will probably do so this coming week. First I have to stabilize and align the strong back stations to the spline.

Alan, That is an interesting idea about using two routers at one time. I am going to use cove and bead construction but will mill them on the shaper. I was able to purchase shaper bits for less than a good set of router canoe bits from www.magnate.net - a great source for tooling. By using the shaper, I can use the power feeder and get much better results. The fiberglass finish will be completely finished with multiple coates of Epafines varnish to obtain a high gloss and UV protection. On Gary's recommendation , I purchased my plans from www.oneoceankayaks.com For my size and purpose, I choose the Cape Ann Storm model.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Alan, That is an interesting idea about using two routers at one time. I am going to use cove and bead construction but will mill them on the shaper. I was able to purchase shaper bits for less than a good set of router canoe bits from www.magnate.net - a great source for tooling. By using the shaper, I can use the power feeder and get much better results. The fiberglass finish will be completely finished with multiple coates of Epafines varnish to obtain a high gloss and UV protection. On Gary's recommendation , I purchased my plans from www.oneoceankayaks.com For my size and purpose, I choose the Cape Ann Storm model.

Ah, stock feeder- the only way to go to cut all those strips! If you are using WRC or other wood with variations in colorfor the strips, I found it helpful to lay them out in the driveway so I could arrange and number them to get a symmetrical pattern (color and grain) when I layed up the hull later.

Are you going to use the clamp or staple method to attach the strips. I did staples on my canoe but will use clamps on my "build it someday" kayak.

One advantage of epoxy over polyester is that you can get slower setting resin to ensure full resin wetout og the glass and plenty of time to squeegy off excess. That is what we used building fiberglass experimental aircraft. In fact we often heated the resin to make it more watery so it would flow and wet out the the glass easier.

Make sure you continue to document the process. One question, do you make it in two (top & bottom) halves so you can glass the inside easier?

 

[dino drosas]

Alan,

I guess I will be using staples as is recommended by the author of the plans. I know they will be a real PITA to remove. You should go to www.oneoceankayaks.com , click on "WORKSHOP" and scroll down to "INDEX". I have never seen a more comprehensive site with such an absolute wealth of info. This guy has really got it together. It also shows in the index section how to separate the deck and hull and remove the spine so that the interior of both can be glassed. A lot of good info for woodworking even if you are not building a kayak.

Dino

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Alan,

I guess I will be using staples as is recommended by the author of the plans. I know they will be a real PITA to remove. You should go to www.oneoceankayaks.com , click on "WORKSHOP" and scroll down to "INDEX". I have never seen a more comprehensive site with such an absolute wealth of info. This guy has really got it together. It also shows in the index section how to separate the deck and hull and remove the spine so that the interior of both can be glassed. A lot of good info for woodworking even if you are not building a kayak.

Dino

Thanks. Quite interesting, I didn't know all that was there.

One method I learned that makes it easier to remove the staples- staple through a piece of heavy woven plastic/nylon/whatever strapping. When it is time to remove the staples you just pull on the strapping. Even if the strapping splits it usually lifts the staples enough so you can grip them with pliers.

 

[Gary K]

On my first kayak I built up the bottom of the stapler with cardboard and tape, so the staple was about 1/16" proud of the surface. I removed the staples with a flat screwdriver prying against a scrap strip of cedar. The staples pulled easy without damage, although it is a PIA to remove several hundred.

 

[Tarhead]

Dino,
When I ripped up our livingroom and dining room carpet and pad I discovered that the carpet pad installers must have been paid by the staple...had to have been 2000. I went to my favorite disposable tool store and got one of these heavy duty staple removers:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66732
Makes a world of difference vs flat head screwdriver/pliers/channelocks/bad words/carpeltunnel/more bad words/etc. Low risk for damaging the surrounding wood too.
It's yours if you want it. Not planning to need it again. Let me know.

 

[jamie]

That looks like a fun project. I would have to store stuff overhead, too.

The cat sure seems to like it

 

[dino drosas]

Mark, I have never seen one like that. Thanks for your generous offer and I would surely like to have it. As for Buster (new shop cat), nothing phases him - all 17 lbs of him. Comperssed air is the only shop soung he does not like. I got him from the humane society about 4 months ago and he has been the best shop pet - more like a dog than a cat.

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Dino,

That's really very interesting to see how it goes together! Almost like an airplane!

Looks like it's going to be heavy... How much do you think it will weigh when done? Will it be heavier than the average?

Very good job...

 

[dino drosas]

Joe, All that you see now will be removed from within when the kayak is finished and replaced by two thin bulkheads. The kayak will basically be an open cockpit and two large air chambers. It should not weigh over 45 pounds. At least that is what the plans call for.

 

[Joe Lyddon]

Dino, Thank you... Sneaky, cool technique! :gar-Bi

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Dino,

That's really very interesting to see how it goes together! Almost like an airplane!

Looks like it's going to be heavy... How much do you think it will weigh when done? Will it be heavier than the average?

Very good job...

Dino is correct, it is amazing how light cedar strippers are. My 18' canoe, with solid fore and aft decks, laminated thwarts and seat frames was only 62 lbs. - less than aluminum, vinyl, etc. canoes. I think Kevlar canoes were lighter. Now, this is not something Dino will use for whitewater canoeing or where there are rocks.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Dino - A gentleman was demonstrating building a cypress strip canoe at the annual Klingspor Woodworking Shop Woodworking Show last April (perhaps he's one of the guys posting to this thread). Anyway, he had a clever way to hold the strips to the lofting frames while the glue was setting - he used a hot-melt gun. Certainly looked effective, and would be a lot less of a PITA than removing hundreds of staples.

 

[sapwood]

Dino - A gentleman was demonstrating building a cypress strip canoe at the annual Klingspor Woodworking Shop Woodworking Show last April (perhaps he's one of the guys posting to this thread). Anyway, he had a clever way to hold the strips to the lofting frames while the glue was setting - he used a hot-melt gun. Certainly looked effective, and would be a lot less of a PITA than removing hundreds of staples.

Yep, that would be Phil S. I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in yet. I really enjoyed checking out his kayak :icon_thum

Roger

 

[Phil S]

Dino, David and Roger are correct, I did a demo of how to build a stripper boat without using staples. I have built numerous canoes and kayak over the years and I believe you will enjoy making the craft and then again every time you take it out. I used the staple method on only the first few boats and then found that when you account for the time spent pulling the staples and filling all the holes, the stapless methods are actually faster and you end up with a flawless boat. Among the numerous methods to join the strips while keeping them fair to the forms, I have found hot melt glue and surgical tubing to be fast and effective. I use a dab of quick setting hot melt across the face of the strips about every 6 inches or so and then use the surgical tubing pulled over the form to ensure the strips are touching the forms. Here is a good link showing at least the hot melt technique http://www.laughingloon.com/shoptips2.html When you get to glassing stage I would be happy to assist in the first - sometimes troublesome- coat. Just let me know when you are close and I could sneak down from Raleigh. I always love to see the first coat go on - that is when the boat comes alive. Phil