Finishing a bonus Room

[ncreefer]

I'm in the process of finishing my bonus room and had a few questions regarding permits. I had the electrical put in (without a permit) and now my wife is second guessing it thinking we should have gotten the permit. Can I get it permitted even though the work was already done? If I do this, would they also inspect insulation as well? What are the cons of not having the entire room permitted? HVAC was installed when the house was built so that wouldn't need to be inspected.

What else would i need to get inspected besides electrical and insulation?

 

[McRabbet]

It is usually best to have the local jurisdiction permit and inspect work like yours -- in the event of a fire, your insurance carrier many not cover any loss and when you resell, the issue may come up. If you added any stud walls or made structural modifications (like adding a roof gable and windows), that would require a permit, too. An electrical inspection would require that all wiring be to state and local code and the inspector always wants to see it before insulation is installed and drywall is put up. IIRC, insulation and drywall would not require inspection. I'm sure you could not get a permit if the wall are closed.

 

[ncreefer]

There has been no structural work. When the house was built HVAC was installed. Since then I've gotten the electrical wired (lines run to boxes but not attached to receptacles and lights wired) and put up the installation. The electrician told me that he doesn't attach the receptacles until after the drywall is put up. Will they make me remove the insulation to look at the electrical?
Thanks in advance for the help.
I'll probably call the building inspector, but I'm trying to figure out if I made a mistake before I call.
Do I need to use 5/8" drywall for the ceiling since it is above the garage?

 

[Joe Scharle]

Although NC allows a homeowner to do almost anything with their property, Deeds of Trust are explicit regarding damaging the value of the loan. And as Rob points out, insurance companies do NOT look for ways to compensate policy holders. Rather they look for ways to DENY any claims.
Although permits cause the taxes on a home to increase in most cases, it also raises the basis of a home's value. Gives the appraiser justification for more value at re-sale time.
As a builder, I wouldn't even consider not pulling a permit...put's some of the liability on the inspector. And as a Realtor, I wouldn't let a buyer get into a home with non-permitted additions...liability again.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Joe

 

[richidoo]

If you do minor electrical work yourself you don't need a permit. Usually the electrician will pull a permit for you and arrange inspection if it's necessary. I would ask your electrician about it first. He may be able to explain that the job is small enough to not require permit/inspection. Or he may shuffle and jive, in which case ask him to arrange an city inspection for you and he'll gladly do it to protect his license, but he might charge you more money for extra time needed, that's fair. If the electrician is a serious professional you're probably alright for safety, but I understand the desire to be totally legit. Outlets and lights going to existing panel is a pretty minor job. But new service panel, 220 circuits, etc are more serious jobs that may require inspection.

On the insulation, it's pretty obvious whether the insulation is installed well enough when it is all visible in a remodeled room. Attic insulation needs a trained eye and judgement. Look up what is required for the wall type and pull back a piece to look at the backing to make sure it is the correct R value. But the electrical inspector may not sign off unless he can see all the wiring to make sure no staple crushing the romex.

 

[ncreefer]

I didn't really consider it an addition since the room was there, just no outlets, insulation or walls.
Basically all of the wires are behind the insulation, since there is a gap behind it and the outside wall. I had asked the electrician if we needed one, and he said if you want to do it we can, but we don't need it. All he did was lay the wire and attach the lights to an existing circuit. I'll probably attach the receptacles myself. My wife said don't worry about the permit, and now she is saying we should have gotten one.
Thanks.

 

[Bigdog72]

For all the reasons stated above, in plain English, yes, you need a permit.

 

[ncguy77]

Pfffffftttt.

You NEED a permit like you NEED a hole in your wallet.
In my neck of woods they use a permit app as an excuse to check your septic system and tell you that you need a new one put in at the tune of 30K$ +.
I'll take the risk. That's just stupid ole me.

 

[ncreefer]

ncguy, I understand what you are saying....
I'm just afraid of having issues when we try to sell our house in the future. I would hate for a sale to fall through over something as trivial as electrical not being permited.

 

[BobcatBob]

I didn't really consider it an addition since the room was there, just no outlets, insulation or walls.
Basically all of the wires are behind the insulation, since there is a gap behind it and the outside wall. I had asked the electrician if we needed one, and he said if you want to do it we can, but we don't need it. All he did was lay the wire and attach the lights to an existing circuit. I'll probably attach the receptacles myself. My wife said don't worry about the permit, and now she is saying we should have gotten one.
Thanks.

Let me tell you a true story. My daughter purchased a house in Apex, NC and during the closing they found out that the "bouns room" which was finished now but was not when the people selling the house purchased it. The sellers had to put money in escrow, the drywall in the room was removed, the insulation was removed and the electrical was then exposed. In other words, the room was taken back to a unfinished room. Because codes had changed, things had to up brought up to code at the current level. The seller paid about $7,000 for all this to be done.

Bottom line, get a permit. They don't need to know the electrical has been done and you can get the permit yourself. If something does not pass, have the electrician fix it for you, but you are the owner of the permit. I suspect they will inspect the electrial, and then the insulation before you can install the drywall.

Bob

 

[ncreefer]

Bob, Thanks for that information. I thought the insulation didn't have to get inspected.

 

[Gotcha6]

Pitt County may have multi discipline inspectors for residential work. Most counties do now to save $. Call them & see. In any case all you may need to do is remove the insulation necessary to expose the wiring. They will check for proper attachment, wire size, & receptacle spacing. They may allow you to replace the insulation & not come back until your Final Inspection. At that point all they should check would be polarity & grounding. Best to do it if you ever plan to sell.

 

[mkepke]

The question of denial of coverage of (residential) insurance always comes up and I do *not* believe it is true. But it's easy to confirm by calling your carrier.

If the OP plans to sell sometime in the forseeable future, I think a permit is definitely a good idea. North Carolina has property disclosure laws and I think this would qualify for disclosure. A good RE sellers agent will ask too.

As a buyer, I can tell you I once forced a seller to close out an electrical permit..it was a case where I noticed some of the electrical work in an outbuilding was incorrect, looked up the permits (public records) and found an incomplete permit.

Joe S - this reminds me, I owe you a call ! <dope slaps self>

-Mark

 

[DaveD]

If you are confident in what you did was correct then I'd not worry about the permit (and for sure not call the inspections dept to ask questions). Sounds like a electrician did it though so the bottom line might be its his neck in the ringer with the inspector. Have the electrician handle it.

I'd challenge just about anyone (particularly a new buyer)to prove/disprove something was added after a house was bought and the changes were 100% interior to the structure. Also paranoia isn't one of my guiding lights about how to do things.

If you call the inspector they will need to be able to see how the wiring is run, protected, and fastened to the structure. The new insulation will have to meet current code.

 

[mkepke]

<snip>
I'd challenge just about anyone (particularly a new buyer)to prove/disprove something was added after a house was bought and the changes were 100% interior to the structure. Also paranoia isn't one of my guiding lights about how to do things.

Dates of manufacture were added to Romex sheathing made starting several years ago.

It's also usually printed on drywall and certain insulation products (incidentally, it figures into the Chinese drywall fiasco).

Unless you stockpile NOS materials, it isn't hard to tell anymore - unless the work is completely inaccessible.

-Mark

 

[DaveD]

Yes, but you have to destroy the wall to be able to see the dates on the back of the drywall or the romex (unless you are going to crawl into a cubby hole kind of space with a flashlight and poke around).

If I was selling my house and someone really anal started asking what I consider stupid questions I'd just plead ignorance. Anything from 'I don't remember who did it' to 'you would have to ask the city/county why they don't have a record of what you consider changes' to 'you would have to ask the builder, I don't know'

There also isn't anything wrong with selling a house 'as is, where is' and buyer beware. I don't remember anything'

 

[Gotcha6]

Inspection Depts are Bureaucrats. They keep records on EVERYTHING! Consider the fact that an 'as is' sale would cast suspicion on the safety of any work done. I know a man that bought a home like this & found the owner previous had wired it with lamp cord.
It would be akin to buying a car without an odometer statement. No one is saying the work done on your home is unsafe, but without third party verification there is a seriuous liability issue especially with trades like electrical & gas piping.
JMTCW

Yes, but you have to destroy the wall to be able to see the dates on the back of the drywall or the romex (unless you are going to crawl into a cubby hole kind of space with a flashlight and poke around).

If I was selling my house and someone really anal started asking what I consider stupid questions I'd just plead ignorance. Anything from 'I don't remember who did it' to 'you would have to ask the city/county why they don't have a record of what you consider changes' to 'you would have to ask the builder, I don't know'

There also isn't anything wrong with selling a house 'as is, where is' and buyer beware. I don't remember anything'

 

[Bigdog72]

In this home market, and those in real estate and building know this, to lose a buyer for something as trivial as the cost of a permit is ludicrous. You can listen to some who will say you don't need a permit, you can "get away with it"! But when the only seroius buyer you have in a six month period walks because you give him nebulous responses to commonly asked questions you will remember this thread.

 

[Gotcha6]

The Moderators feel there is some valuable information here but that it should not be allowed to escalate to the point of promoting illegal activity, definitely against our posting policy. Therefore, we are closing this thread. We hope you understand.