Advice wanted - life with a crawlspace

Burly John

John
Corporate Member
I moved to Burlington last year. Previously, I've lived in northern Ohio, Boston, and Indiana, PA, which is near Pittsburgh. All my houses had full basements and attics. I now own a house built in the early 1960's with a crawl space and an attic accessible via a pull-down ladder. This is the first home I've had with central air.
I'd appreciate any advice on what kinds of regular maintenance I should be doing that may be unique to crawlspaces.
Thanks.
John
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Keep it ventilated unless it gets near freezing then close it up. Watch for standing water if found have it fixed immediately. Check for termites every few years and treat when needed.
 

tri4sale

Daniel
Corporate Member
Welcome to NC, where there is an opinion on crawlspaces as varied as there are opinions on the best BBQ.

Best solution is full encapsulation, which basically seals of the crawlspace from the outside and makes it conditioned space, but this is also the most expensive solution.

Barring that, make sure you have 100% coverage of plastic barrier on the dirt floor, houses built in the 60's this wasn't required, you may have none, or partial coverage. As for vents opened or closed during the summer and winter, I've seen grown men nearly come to blows over this. Some say leave open for air flow in the summer, and closed during the winter. Some say leave closed in summer due to humidity, and open in the winter.

On a side note about crawlspaces, make sure the property is current on termite prevention, and that crawlspace can be checked for termites.
 

NCPAPOF2

New User
Curtis
I had mine encapsulated 2 year ago. Removed all insulation, 20 mil vapor barrier sealed and up the walls to about 3" from the joist to allow for termite inspection. R13 foam on the interior of the foundation walls. French drains and sump pump. Dehumidifier. Moneybwell spent. To be clear I had a moisture problem to the point my termite company advised me they could not renew my termite damage policy. My last house had a moisture issue also and I put down a moisture barrier, but not very effective. If the soil is damp at least a vapor barrier, if there's more than just slight dampness encapsulate it. My first house 40 years ago was a dust bowl. That is rare these days in my area.
Nice and clean under there now to the point I really don't mind going under there.
 

Wilsoncb

Williemakeit
Corporate Member
I agree with @tri4sale, encapsulating is the way to go. However, every situation is a little different and cost is certainly a factor in the decision. I was concerned about what would happen if you sealed off the vents, so I installed a dehumidifier and sensors to monitor the condition. I also have electric heat so didn’t need to worry about a combustion chamber in the sealed space. I got a couple quotes that ranged from $6 to $11k which was enough motivation to do it myself. It ended up costing about $1200 to encapsulate and another $1100 for a good dehumidifier. My house had insulation between the floor joists that was still good so I didn’t have to insulate the crawl space walls.

I found this site useful. It’s aimed at new construction, but I applied the concept to my existing home and am very pleased with results.

Here’s a link to another similar discussion on this site.
 

HMH

Heath Hendrick
Senior User
What the others have said ultimately. Ventilated crawlspaces likely account for 95%+ of construction in the area, as that was the prevailing wisdom of "how to build" prior to recent years. Most old/ pre ~1920 homes in the region were built on short piers, w/ no vapor barrier at all, w/ no sidewalls and that actually worked much better that partially ventilated crawls, as there was continuous air-flow to keep things dry. Partially ventilated crawlspaces, especially in the SE due to our extremely high summer ambient humidity are inherently problematic as the airflow is severely limited by the placement of the vents, which is often too little, creating pockets of dead air that just collect humidity/ invite wood destroying insects, etc. Anything over 70% humidity is no good from that respect.

As an aside, basements tend to be more popular in the North due to the deeper frost line/ foundation depth requirements there. If you're digging down 4' to get below the frost-line, it's somewhat of a no-brainer to just go a few more feet and get the usable space. Here in the SE, our frost line is only 12", so the economy changes a bit there.

Modern construction/ building science points clearly to a sealed encapsulated crawlspace as being the best bet here. ESPECIALLY, (and as a structural engineer, I would say required), if your floor system uses engineered lumber, (TJI, etc). I've seen 10 year old homes absolutely ruined w/ rotten TJI framing members constructed over a poorly ventilated crawlspace w/ a cheap vapor barrier). No cheap fix at that point.

I will also admit the cost to have it professionally retrofitted is high - quite frankly, because it can be. Its not that the work is inherently difficult or requires expensive material, it's just damp, dirty, crawling around on your knees and stomach work. No fun whatsoever, but if you're physically able, you can easily save thousands doing it yourself.

IF you have a vented crawlspace, and traditional/ dimensional lumber joists that appear in good shape, no mo**, mildew, insect damage, etc, the best compromise to a fully encapsulated crawlspace would be a 100% vapor barrier, close your vents, (summer and winter), and put a few box fans/ air movers underneath, (NOT the fans that are marketed to replace your foundation vents, and that sucks in air from the outside - our air is to humid in the summer, and those will create a real problem) strategically aimed to keep air moving in the crawlspace/ keep things dry. I once had a handyman/ friend that I would hire for a day here/ there to help me with "2-man" projects, just as a second set of hands ultimately. He smoked, and while I dont, and would certainly never allow smoke in the house, I'd let him smoke in the crawlspace when I was tacking this in a previous house we owned years ago. If there was enough air movement to move the smoke away, all good - if the smoke just sat there, I'd move the fans around/ aim a fan into that area to keep air movement everywhere. It was a good way to find dead spots of air for sure, but I'm sure a smoke stick, incense, etc would accomplish the same thing.

Welcome to the South!
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
If the insulation between the floor joists is the fiberglass with paper on one side, check to see if it is hanging down (usually installed with springy wire shoved up between the joists to hold it up). IF it is hanging down in spots, looking stringy, that indicates it is moisture saturated, which also means the humidity is or has been too high. I suggest having it replaced with the insulation that is plastic coated on both sides. Built in the 60s, you may not have any insulation.

Do not be surprised to find snake skin sheds under the house. If there are any openings, mice find their way in, and the snakes follow to feed on them. If you make noise as you crawl in, they snakes will normally find a way out, probably before you even see them. Best to enter carefully with a good flashlight.

If laying your own plastic on the dirt to reduce moisture (it also makes it much nicer when crawling around checking on things) use 6 mil minimum (8 is better). I did mine myself several years ago on the advice of the termite inspector. When my insulation got worse, I hired them to seal the vents and replace the insulation. Having the plastic already down saved me a couple thousand when they sealed it.

If you have water running under the house when it rains, you will need to (if possible), determine where it is coming in and take measures to stop it or divert it elsewhere.

If you have mold under the house, I had good luck with Boracare with Mold control. With the mold care it runs about $125 gal for the concentrate. Apply with a pump up sprayer. It will take a week or two before you start seeing the mold disappear. It also works on termites. The concentration you use will be based on any infestation.

If you hire a company to encapsulate it, be prepared for sticker shock.

Regarding the fans, your biggest problem will probably be finding a place to plug them in.
 

Westpacx3

Jim
Corporate Member
Welcome to NC, where there is an opinion on crawlspaces as varied as there are opinions on the best BBQ.

Best solution is full encapsulation, which basically seals of the crawlspace from the outside and makes it conditioned space, but this is also the most expensive solution.

Barring that, make sure you have 100% coverage of plastic barrier on the dirt floor, houses built in the 60's this wasn't required, you may have none, or partial coverage. As for vents opened or closed during the summer and winter, I've seen grown men nearly come to blows over this. Some say leave open for air flow in the summer, and closed during the winter. Some say leave closed in summer due to humidity, and open in the winter.

On a side note about crawlspaces, make sure the property is current on termite prevention, and that crawlspace can be checked for termites.
I concur here. But I just covered my vents and have the plastic..

The ac vents always leak a little air so that will and does keep it cooler under there, dropping the temp difference and reducing the condensation on the air ducts making less moisture under the house...my termite guy has no issue with it. The only down side I have seen is my hall hardwood floors creek as they dried out. I also have no insulation under the house
I pulled out the 1960s stuff and just never put it back. I need to sooner or later.
 

Burly John

John
Corporate Member
Thanks to all. Clearly, keep the moisture down is a big concern. I sincerely appreciate all the responses.
John
 

Craptastic

Matt
Corporate Member
The only thing I would add to the above discussion is highly consider a humidity meter sensor in the crawl space with the display up in the house. They are relatively inexpensive and can give you a wonderful idea of how humid or arid the crawlspace is at any time. When we had our crawlspace done back in 2020 they used 8mil plastic, replaced all the fiberglass insulation, installed a sump pump and a dehumidifier and then also left the meter and told us to always try to keep the humidity below 60%. After dialing in the dehumidifier after a couple of months our crawlspace insulation and coverings look just like they did when installed.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
Corporate Member
This topic if filled with obsolete best practices that have been tested as useless, lots of good intention but uninformed You-Tube information, and more total BS from HVAC contractors than fit in my pickup. The following is what I believe to be accurate by todays best informed testing:

A sheet of plastic is about worthless as moisture and outgassing just goes around it. Moisture seeks equilibrium. The correct configuration is a "sealed" crawlspace.

Always wise to test for Radon first. Easy to run a perforated pipe and small fan under the plastic if it is found. A real pain to retrofit. You never know as it varies by only a few feet. Your neighbor could be fine and you off the charts. Test.

Test for mold. Again, you don't know if you don't test.

You are likely to need a dehumidifier. You need to keep the RH to 50% or so to prevent mold. 60 is too high! In a sealed install, they will put foam boards on the foundation and usually remove the floor insulation. That gives them access to all the mold that needs to be abated.

As dehumidifiers, either the $200 portables or the $2000 "crawl space" are total crap so as Matt says, put in a remote sensor. Many are useless. My Taylor seems to be OK. I have to look at it occasionally as THREE different remote monitoring thermostats that were supposed to alert my phone or e-mail all crapped out or just did not work. For any humidistat, check their accuracy with a psychrometer. The sensors are not very accurate and 55% instead of 50 is bad news. As long as you know what reads when it is actually 50%, you are good.

It is debatable if you should include the CS as part of the house, like a basement. If not really correctly sealed, you can still get soil outgassing, radon if detected, and some of the plastic they use outgasses for years. The building inspectors seem to be confused as well.

I put in a 100 CFM exhaust fan figuring it would pull from the various leaks in the floor, but it did not seem to help any.

I was considering an ERV, but they do not do a good job of transferring the humidity so they can make it worse. Looking at the costs, I am going to put in a 200 CFM or so INTAKE fan* using one of the sealed over foundation vents, into a plenum with a MERV 15 filter, and pipe that into the return air duct. It will be on a tiler I can set so it runs at night in the summer and day in the winter. About 6 to 8 hours. That should be enough to flush the various gasses out of the house and I figure it will cost less over 10 years than an ERV.

Super low noise, Panasonic probably. Also be aware some of the dehumidifiers are quite noisy.

Pay attention to the drainage around the house. Downspouts dump well away from the foundation, all dirt sloping away at least for 4 feet. If your soil is at all damp, you need to find out why and fix it. Hopefully that won't include foundation waterproofing or French drains. FWIW, my house had two leaking tubs. Just poor installations easily fixed. I had bad grading so our first year here was with a hurricane and we had water in the CS. Entire East side of the house drained TO the house. Regrades, fixed gutters, extended downspouts and no problem.
 

Jack A.

Jack
User
I put in a 100 CFM exhaust fan figuring it would pull from the various leaks in the floor, but it did not seem to help any.

I am going to put in a 200 CFM or so INTAKE fan* using one of the sealed over foundation vents, into a plenum with a MERV 15 filter, and pipe that into the return air duct.

"I put in a 100 CFM exhaust fan figuring it would pull from the various leaks in the floor, but it did not seem to help any."

Exhausting the crawlspace? Specifically what were you wanting it to help with?

"I am going to put in a 200 CFM or so INTAKE fan* using one of the sealed over foundation vents, into a plenum with a MERV 15 filter, and pipe that into the return air duct."

So from outside, through the crawlspace, into the home A/C ducting?
 

tvrgeek

Scott
Corporate Member
"I put in a 100 CFM exhaust fan figuring it would pull from the various leaks in the floor, but it did not seem to help any."

Exhausting the crawlspace? Specifically what were you wanting it to help with?

"I am going to put in a 200 CFM or so INTAKE fan* using one of the sealed over foundation vents, into a plenum with a MERV 15 filter, and pipe that into the return air duct."

So from outside, through the crawlspace, into the home A/C ducting?
Yes. exhausting the plastic outgassing. It is almost gone now after 6 years. I have been told there are newer plastics that don't smell.

Yes, a way of bringing fresh air in and pushing household smells out. By using a fan and a filter DUCTED to the plenum, less pollen and dust compared to just cracking a window. Not drawing CS air into the house.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
I'm in the put down a heavy weight vapor barrier on the ground and keep it sealed group. Our crawlspace in Concord stays below the dewpoint during the summer. Water will condense and mold/rot will happen if kept open to the humid outside air. Any water vapor trying to leave the ground is diverted to the masonry walls and then to the outside. Moisture levels in the floor joists was 18% before, 12% now.
 

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