White Oak logs

[Floyd Hall]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has offered me 7-8 large White Oak logs, which were felled a week or two ago. They range from 20-32i across at the base and are 8-12 feet long. Seven are very straight, the eighth is a little crooked. No lumber yard seems to want them, so I am thinking about having them quarter sawn, then stacked and air dried for a year or so before I take them to a kiln for final drying. They are about 15 miles away and are easy to get to. Should I have them taken straight to the lumber yard for cutting or wait for a bit and have someone bring in a Wood Mizer?

Any opinions?

Floyd

 

[Bill Clemmons]

White Oak is pretty decay resistant, so waiting awhile shouldn't be a problem. Eventually I would bring in a portable bandsaw mill (e.g. Woodmizer, etc.) and have them sawed onsight.

Did these come out of a yard, or were they in the woods? Yard trees can have nails in them, and a sawyer may be reluctant to take the risk.

 

[Gofor]

Best not to let them laying on the dirt too long, or Bessie beetle larva will soon be feeding on the sap wood under the bark. If the logs are gotten off the dirt and end sealed with Anchorseal, etc, they will store for quite a long time. By "off the dirt", I mean quite elevated or on asphalt, pavement, etc. Just on a pallet on the ground is not enough to stop the beetles. That said, realize the interior wood will not begin drying until they are cut, so your time lapse before use will not really start until then.

Go

 

[Floyd Hall]

They come from a yard, but the trees were notched 8-10 feet up to prevent them from falling on the house and the trees were fairly old when the house was put in. So it's highly unlikely any nails would be in the tree that high up.

I'm leaning toward making this a two-step rather than a three-step process. In other words, have the trees taken straight to the sawmill, cut and then bring them back here in my own trailer and stack them outside to air dry. Then I'd wait a year or so and look for a kiln. Otherwise, I'd have to bring them here, eventually hire someone to bring in a Wood Mizer and spend a day cutting -- then wait a while and look for a kiln. That seems pretty drawn out and I doubt the would save much money. The big cost seems to be transportation. I could save money doing most of the moving myself.

Floyd

White Oak is pretty decay resistant, so waiting awhile shouldn't be a problem. Eventually I would bring in a portable bandsaw mill (e.g. Woodmizer, etc.) and have them sawed onsight.

Did these come out of a yard, or were they in the woods? Yard trees can have nails in them, and a sawyer may be reluctant to take the risk.

 

[scsmith42]

Floyd, in order to yield high quality quartersawn lumber, you want logs with the following characteristics:

1 - small end diameter of 20" or greater. Large end diameter is inconsequential, as the small end is what determines the width of the cant. A 20" small end diameter log will usually produce a maximum width of 8" quartersawn boards w/o pith and minimal sapwood in them. You will net four boards this width, and the next four boards will be around 6-1/2" wide, the next four around 5" wide, and the last four around 3-1/2" wide (if milling for 5/4 thick dry material).

2 - centered pith on both ends of the log, and a straight log. If the pith is not centered the log will have inconsistent stresses within and the lumber will usually distort.

3 - clear faces - preferably on all four sides but at least on three sides. Avoid logs with bumps or obvious indications that branches were present on the trunk.

4. No obvious signs of metal. A black stain visible on the end of the log is a clear indicator that metal is present in the log somewhere above the stain.

Compared with flatsawn, quartersawn oak shrinks twice as much in thickness when drying. If you want 4/4 thick dry boards, have them milled at at least 1-1/8". For 5/4 dry, mill at 1-7/16" thick.

 

[Floyd Hall]

Thanks. I was going to head down that way to talk about the slabs, etc., -- and also about kiln stuff -- sometime before Christmas. Would it be okay for me to email you pictures of these logs so you can tell me what you think?

Floyd, in order to yield high quality quartersawn lumber, you want logs with the following characteristics:

1 - small end diameter of 20" or greater. Large end diameter is inconsequential, as the small end is what determines the width of the cant. A 20" small end diameter log will usually produce a maximum width of 8" quartersawn boards w/o pith and minimal sapwood in them. You will net four boards this width, and the next four boards will be around 6-1/2" wide, the next four around 5" wide, and the last four around 3-1/2" wide (if milling for 5/4 thick dry material).

2 - centered pith on both ends of the log, and a straight log. If the pith is not centered the log will have inconsistent stresses within and the lumber will usually distort.

3 - clear faces - preferably on all four sides but at least on three sides. Avoid logs with bumps or obvious indications that branches were present on the trunk.

4. No obvious signs of metal. A black stain visible on the end of the log is a clear indicator that metal is present in the log somewhere above the stain.

Compared with flatsawn, quartersawn oak shrinks twice as much in thickness when drying. If you want 4/4 thick dry boards, have them milled at at least 1-1/8". For 5/4 dry, mill at 1-7/16" thick.

 

[Jeff]

A good discussion for all of us to learn from. How about posting the pics here too along with Scott's recommendations (quarter sawn vs flat sawn for your logs)?

Do you want the best grade or the maximum yield from these logs? The answer tells the sawyer how to cut them.

http://www.wpsawmill.com/sawmill.php

 

[scsmith42]

Floyd, you are welcome to send the pics via email or post them here on NCWW for further discussion.

 

[Floyd Hall]

I'll give it a shot. Struggle with it the first time.

Floyd, you are welcome to send the pics via email or post them here on NCWW for further discussion.

 

[Floyd Hall]

 

[Floyd Hall]

 

[Floyd Hall]

 

[Floyd Hall]

Sorry. Got the first one upside down.

 

[Floyd Hall]

I would obviously like some of it quarter sawn, so the best grade is a priority. But I also do cabinet work, so I suppose flat sawn is better for that, right? I'll confess I don't know. I worked in a cabinet shop one time and in our brochure they said the wood was "hand selected." And that was true. When we needed some, we walked across the room, hand selected it off the wood rack and dragged it back to the work bench.

 

[scsmith42]

View attachment 21595

The log on the right appears to have metal stain in several places. If so it would not be a good candidate for milling. I take it that we're looking at the bottom end of the butt log (the log on the right)? How long is this log? If the dark spots are truly metal stains it may be possible to cut the bottom 4' off of a 12' log and still yield some nice 8' boards.

The log on the left has several bumps on the top and right side indicating former branches. If the rest of the log is clear you may be able to net three clear quarters out of it for quartersawing.

 

[scsmith42]

I would obviously like some of it quarter sawn, so the best grade is a priority. But I also do cabinet work, so I suppose flat sawn is better for that, right? I'll confess I don't know. I worked in a cabinet shop one time and in our brochure they said the wood was "hand selected." And that was true. When we needed some, we walked across the room, hand selected it off the wood rack and dragged it back to the work bench.

In general quartersawn is desirable for any type of cabinet or furniture work, unless you prefer cathedral grain.

 

[Floyd Hall]

Thanks. I'll go back and take a better look at them. I was wondering about the discoloration. You'd mentioned it. What's the best way to cut for flooring?

In general quartersawn is desirable for any type of cabinet or furniture work, unless you prefer cathedral grain.

 

[Floyd Hall]

Alright folks, I'm about to pull the trigger on this and it's a pretty big deal for me, given the cost, which now looks to be in the $1,500 range. I have never used quarter sawn White Oak. Most of what I have done has been cabinet work with flat sawn Cherry or Red Oak. Also, I really don't have the table saw, planer and joiner for this yet, just a good contractor's saw and a modest 6i jointer and bench top planer. What I do know is it's used in Arts and Crafts style furniture and cabinetry, which I am a fan of in a big way. Right now I'm thinking I'll quarter saw half of it, then flat saw the rest of it. Flat sawn stuff seems to be more useful to my immediate needs, but I would like to have some quarter sawn pieces to begin experimenting with. I can always buy more, right?

Anyway, thanks for your help. Any further advice you can offer, feel free. I'm hoping to turn this into a semi-professional business and managing stock from the beginning is a good thing for me to learn.

Floyd

 

[ehpoole]

They come from a yard, but the trees were notched 8-10 feet up to prevent them from falling on the house and the trees were fairly old when the house was put in. So it's highly unlikely any nails would be in the tree that high up.

Floyd

Be careful about assuming that a given height ensures a lack of metal hardware in trees. As an amateur radio operator I have installed eyebolts 10-20ft high in trees to support antennas and have built tree houses in trees even higher still (around 30+ ft.).

 

[Gofor]

Thanks. I'll go back and take a better look at them. I was wondering about the discoloration. You'd mentioned it. What's the best way to cut for flooring?

I have 3/4" oak floor for about 50% of my home. It is a mix that came from just sawing the log from one side to the other. Basically, it is a mix of flat, rift and quartersawn. This is pre-finished bought flooring commercially installed. About half is red oak installed by the builder, and the other half is white oak installed by a flooring company.

I know from cutting my own oak for furniture work, quartersawn is the most stable, but have not had any problems with any of the floor boards warping. That said, the quarter and rift sawn give a more consistent color shade and pattern. After 10 years, the little dents and small defects also seem to be less noticeable in the close grain of the quarter and rift sawn. If I had the choice, I would go with all quarter/rift sawn.

Just my personal opinion. You may like the look of the occasional tiger stripe or cathedral grain thrown in the mix.

Go