What to use

[mcsincnj]

The hardest thing I struggle with is a good finish. I have just about completed a small box (12x5x5) made of cherry with mitered corners and ash dovetails crossing the corners. It has a raised panel sliding lid. Pretty simple stuff. Not having worked in cherry before, I don't know if I should use a stain or clear finish or what. The ash is contrasting the cherry so staining would be difficult at best.
So, any suggestions?

thanks, mike

 

[Bas]

Don't stain. Use an oil based finish like Waterlox. The cherry will darken naturally over time, further enhancing the contrast.

 

[bluedawg76]

Stain is a dirty word and will muddle the contrast, IMO.
An oil-based finish (either straight oil like blo, blo/varnish, or an oil-based varnish) will add an amber tint to the ash and warm the cherry. A clear finish like blonde shellac will not.

For small boxes, I prefer a oil/varnish mix (1:1:1 of blo/varnish like poly/ mineral spirits). Easy and fool-proof. I like to flood it on, let it sit, then wipe it off after about 10min check on it over the next hr or two and keep wiping if it weeps. After an overnight, repeat flooding and wiping. Let it sit overnight or longer, then buff w/ wax to give it a nice lustre.

 

[mcsincnj]

Stain is a dirty word and will muddle the contrast, IMO.
An oil-based finish (either straight oil like blo, blo/varnish, or an oil-based varnish) will add an amber tint to the ash and warm the cherry. A clear finish like blonde shellac will not.

For small boxes, I prefer a oil/varnish mix (1:1:1 of blo/varnish like poly/ mineral spirits). Easy and fool-proof. I like to flood it on, let it sit, then wipe it off after about 10min check on it over the next hr or two and keep wiping if it weeps. After an overnight, repeat flooding and wiping. Let it sit overnight or longer, then buff w/ wax to give it a nice lustre.

What is blo? Varnish like poly?
Guess these two questions tell you why I have trouble with finishes. LOL

 

[Rick M]

BLO is boiled linseed oil which is not really boiled but has metallic driers added.
Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

 

[Mike Davis]

Use dark walnut Minwax on everything. 4 or 5 coats is best, then 4 coats of thick gloss polyurethane. :no:

 

[Bas]

Use dark walnut Minwax on everything. 4 or 5 coats is best, then 4 coats of thick gloss polyurethane. :no:

No, use Minwax Polyshades. Stain and poly all in one
Or better yet, paint it!

:slap:

(sorry mcsincnj, we're sensitive to the S word around here) ("stain").

 

[kclark]

I wouldn't say stain is the "s" word. It does have its place especially when you use it correctly. And using (insert plug here) Charles Neil's Pre-Conditioner is the bomb when it comes to staining. Since using it I haven't seen any blotching nor does my sapwood stand out. It blends everything together very well. But not using stain has its time and place as well. I have gone both routes just depends on what I want to achieve.

 

[CrealBilly]

Stain just say no

 

[chris_goris]

I wouldn't say stain is the "s" word. It does have its place especially when you use it correctly. And using (insert plug here) Charles Neil's Pre-Conditioner is the bomb when it comes to staining. Since using it I haven't seen any blotching nor does my sapwood stand out. It blends everything together very well. But not using stain has its time and place as well. I have gone both routes just depends on what I want to achieve.

I wholeheartedly agree. Stain has its place and makes for a beautiful finish when done properly. I have seen many beautifully done pieces ( great joinery, design etc) with nothing but oil finishes that end up looking cheap because of it. It may be because of poor wood selection , mixing the wrong woods or whatever. But stains, when done right, in no way detract from the appearance of something, IMO. Sure, I wouldn't ever use anything dark unless requested, but they can be used as a great equalizer, giving your piece a consistent appearance.

 

[Endless Pursuit]

BLO is boiled linseed oil which is not really boiled but has metallic driers added.
Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

Depending on how old your inventory or origin of BLO is, it might contain Lead Oxide, a powerful but highly toxic drying agent. Manufacture of this in the US stopped around 1986 but some of the imported stuff (China, Brasil, Mexico) can still contain lead (heavy metal) compounds. Buy new, domestic made BLO and you are totally safe.

Contray to popular belief, you can still buy lead-based paint in the US. It must be labled "for Industrial Use Only" but it is still readily available.

 

[bluedawg76]

I wholeheartedly agree. Stain has its place and makes for a beautiful finish when done properly. I have seen many beautifully done pieces ( great joinery, design etc) with nothing but oil finishes that end up looking cheap because of it. It may be because of poor wood selection , mixing the wrong woods or whatever. But stains, when done right, in no way detract from the appearance of something, IMO. Sure, I wouldn't ever use anything dark unless requested, but they can be used as a great equalizer, giving your piece a consistent appearance.

Dyes and stains are not the same thing. I would guess that well done pieces you're referring to were dyed, not colored w/ a pigment (i.e. stain like minwax). Adding color via dyes looks great b/c it doesn't obscure/muddle the grain like a pigment will. That said, if you have to stain/paint your piece so that it doesn't look cheap, then perhaps you should alter your wood selection or design. However the OP seems to have chosen the contrast of ash and cherry, so I'm guessing that he would like to maintain that contrast rather than muddle it.

As always, test your finish on scrap to see what you like.

 

[bluedawg76]

Depending on how old your inventory or origin of BLO is, it might contain Lead Oxide, a powerful but highly toxic drying agent. Manufacture of this in the US stopped around 1986 but some of the imported stuff (China, Brasil, Mexico) can still contain lead (heavy metal) compounds. Buy new, domestic made BLO and you are totally safe.

Contray to popular belief, you can still buy lead-based paint in the US. It must be labled "for Industrial Use Only" but it is still readily available.

i don't think i would use any finish from pre-1986.

 

[Jeff]

Good viewpoints with different perspectives.

cherry with mitered corners and ash dovetails crossing the corners.

What is that? How about a few pics for understanding? Is the box already glued up?

The OP hasn't said what his desired outcome should be. :dontknow:

1. The ash and cherry combo is high contrast but perhaps that is his intent and he wants to retain that. Or maybe tone it down a bit?

2. Pigment based stains can muddy the appearance of the grain/figure but they're appropriate for a given application. Dye stains generally don't do that.

3. No "stains" and finish it as is?


http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showphoto.php?photo=75174&title=box31&cat=500

 

[JohnW]

Mike,

I have a little different take on finishing your box. Mitered corners with ash keys will often have some residue glue which shows up during finishing. Wipe it all down with BLO. Just BLO...no additives. As it soakes into the wood, any leftover glue will become very obvious. You can wet sand any light spots (glue residue) with the BLO still soaking in. Once you get all the light glue spots sanded down to a point where they take in the BLO and you see a nice even color, just wipe as much BLO off the box as you can. Let this dry overnight or better yet, several days. Next step is to put on a coat of shellac. Clear if you like the color, or darker if you want to deepen the look. One coat of shellac is enough for a barrier layer. It will dry within 1-hour and you can then apply a poly or varnixh or our choice. You can also just put on a few more coats of shellac and call it done.

I am a big beliver in the BLO/Mineral Spirits/Varnish mixture some have suggested here, and use it a lot. It's quick, and easy to apply. But cherry looks better (IMHO) with my method using garnet shellac. It adds just the right amount of depth to cherry. Also, glue residue is harder to fix with the poly or varnish added to the first coat. Best to sand it all off before any hard finish is applied.

 

[chris_goris]

Dyes and stains are not the same thing. I would guess that well done pieces you're referring to were dyed, not colored w/ a pigment (i.e. stain like minwax). Adding color via dyes looks great b/c it doesn't obscure/muddle the grain like a pigment will. That said, if you have to stain/paint your piece so that it doesn't look cheap, then perhaps you should alter your wood selection or design. However the OP seems to have chosen the contrast of ash and cherry, so I'm guessing that he would like to maintain that contrast rather than muddle it.

As always, test your finish on scrap to see what you like.

Does this look muddled to you?

 

[CrealBilly]

Does this look muddled to you? View attachment 12782View attachment 12784

Honesty yes - I can tell the top was pigmented with something. But the round thing I cant tell - perhaps because the curl is distracting my eye.

BTW - does anyone cook in that kitchen?

 

[chris_goris]

Honesty yes - I can tell the top was pigmented with something. But the round thing I cant tell - perhaps because the curl is distracting my eye.

BTW - does anyone cook in that kitchen?

Yes, the top was stained. See, heres the deal, not everyone likes or wants clear or amber finishes on everything. Quite the opposite has been my experience. That top is made from ash the customer supplied and wanted something darker. The backside of the bowl, as well as the front, has been stained as well and the figure simply pops out of it. And FYI… the kitchen is at the moment a work in progress for a coworker. I would love to see some examples of your coveted dyed (you say potato, stained?) pieces?

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

Looks nice to me Chris. +1 to using BLO on cherry. I really like how it looks. It can take a while to dry though.

 

[mcsincnj]

Wow! I had no idea! :icon_cheers

I will ill be sure to post a pic when it us done