What are the right tools?

[joepoolplayer]

I am very new to this site and woodworking in general. I find it quite relaxing hang out in the garage and toil, however I have literally no clue what I'm doing.

I've been buying tools over the last few months (Table saw, compound mitre saw, biscuit jointer etc). I've been buying mostly ryobi at home depot due to the cost. I recently made a trips to Harbor Frieght, Woodcraft and Northern Tool. All of which have wildly varying prices.

Are some of these discounters such as HF worth it?
How do I determine what the right tools are to purchase and when?
Anyone know of some good general woodworking courses available in the Triangle?

Anyways, sorry for the vague questions, but just hoping to start a dialogue.

Best,
Nate

BTW, are some of these icons for real?!?!?!:saw::BangHead::help::kamahlitu

 

[zapdafish]

I'm not even gonna comment on tool choices.


But here are some local class links that I know of.
http://www.woodwrightschool.com/

http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=532&page=classes

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/D79DE103/mac/template.mac/loadHtmlPage?htmlPage=kalendar.htm

http://www.ncsu.edu/crafts/classes/wood.html

 

[FredP]

depends on what kind of stuff you want to build. Harbor fright is a crap shoot at best IMO. some jewels and a lot of junk and the jewels are sometimes junk. just depends on what day you get it i guess.....:rotflm: But then all tool stores have their "good" stuff and the not so good pile. When buying a particular tool just ask us. rarely will these guys steer ya wrong.:icon_thum

 

[Gotcha6]

Joe, you've really opened up a can of worms here.
Tool pricing and quality are a very subjective thing. Many members here can find tools adequate for their needs at HF and flea market/garage sales without hesitation. Others wouldn't darken the doors of an HF for anything they have. It mostly depends on the user's personal preference and needs.
Woodcraft and other suppliers offer classes many times to help in your skills quest. Check them out. We also have members here doing classes, some free and some for a fee. Keep your eyes open for them.
You say you like to 'hang out in the garage and toil'. In order to develop skills with your tools you should find a publication with step by step plans for basic projects to take on. Shop Notes, Wood, American Woodworker, and many other mags have such articles and are very insightful in this respect. Many members here also post up photographic reports of progress and how they did things. Look at some of them in our archives & albums.
One thing you definitely want to do is learn to use these tools safely. These power tools aren't vegetarians. They love meat. And they like to throw things at ya (particularly your eyes) so keep that in mind. As for materials sources, we have a great many wood suppliers on the site to use once you feel comfortable enough with your skills to attempt more than a simple plywood or framing lumber project with BORG wood.
And while you're here, please take a few moments to go to our Who We Are Forum and tell us a little about yourself.
Good luck. :icon_thum

 

[joepoolplayer]

At the risk of sounding completely daft: what is BORG?

 

[Gotcha6]

Around here it stands for :
Big
Old
Retail
Giant
"O" used to stand for Orange, but we went with generic to get Lowe's in the pic.

 

[FredP]

At the risk of sounding completely daft: what is BORG?

big orange retail giant..... or big ol retail giant. IE home depot or lowes. pick ur favorite color.....:wwink:

 

[FredP]

Around here it stands for :
Big
Old
Retail
Giant
"O" used to stand for Orange, but we went with generic to get Lowe's in the pic.

u r quick dennis.:gar-Bi

 

[Gotcha6]

Fred, you type faster'n I do....:gar-Bi

 

[Joe Scharle]

I've been telling people it's:

Blue (or) Orange Retail Giant

 

[SteveHall]

By the way, the second meaning "Borg" is a reference from StarTrek. The Borg were half-computer zombies-like beings that worked as a collective to "assimilate" other cultures. They fly around in huge square spaceships attaching things to it and themselves as they grow, slowly taking over the entire universe. Although the show developed the species so they become more interesting than their initial arch-enemy reputation, It's still an insult to be called a Borg because it implies lack of culture, no taste for quality, and only a concern for being the biggest and demolishing everyone else in the path.

Which further explains why the word is popularly used among tool mongers to describe the national big box stores.

 

[Bas]

Are some of these discounters such as HF worth it?
How do I determine what the right tools are to purchase and when?
Anyone know of some good general woodworking courses available in the Triangle?

Are the discounters worth it? For certain items, absolutely. Harbor Freight is a great source for short (<24") bar clamps, acid brushes (for glue-ups), casters for simple cabinets, shop rags etc. I also have a hammer drill from them that I bought for $20 and the multi-tool, which is indispensable for drywalling and other DIY projects. But I would not buy the Harbor Freight biscuit jointer because even a slight amount of misalignment renders the tool useless. The $6 block plane I bought from Northern Tool is terrific for leveling the knot I just filled with epoxy, but I would not expect great things from a $12 jack plane.

How do you determine what to buy? Experience. Of course, experience is what you get right after you needed it. Before I started woodworking, I bought the cheap Black & Decker sanders and jig saws. I mean, if you just look at them while at Lowe's or Home Depot, can you see why one tool costs $35 and the other $70? I couldn't. Then you find out that the fence on your little $100 table saw flexes at the end and none of your pieces are a consistent width. Then you start reading tool reviews, visit other people's shops and see their tools, go to a woodworking store and get advice etc.

It may seem costly to buy cheap/ low quality tools first and then upgrade, but if you're just getting started, that's not such a bad thing. You'll learn which features are important to you and which ones are not, and at least you're doing a whole lot of woodworking in the process. Ryobi makes decent tools for the average DIY-er, but they are typically not durable, accurate or powerful enough for the more serious woodworker. But for those first few years when you still need everything, from countersink bits to push blocks, they'll serve you just fine.

Don't get me wrong, I've bought some cheap stuff I later regretted. But overall, very few items are truly throw-away, and even good tools don't always last forever.

BTW, are some of these icons for real?!?!?!

No, they're just a figment of your imagination. :beardedbanana::beachbanana:epper::banana:

 

[nelsone]

"Of course, experience is what you get right after you needed it."

Great statement Bas! I may have to borrow that line!

 

[JimD]

I also use a bunch of Ryobi tools but they make both junk and some pretty good tools. My table saw is a BT3100. It is an unusual belt driven design in a saw that looks more like a portable. Sears still sells a collapsible version of this saw. It is accurate and you can do good work with it. I have extension rails and a custom base and can rip over 60 inches with it. But it is not sold any more. Other than the Sears saw, which is not branded Craftsman, the table saws Ryobi sells right now are not so good IMHO. Bad table saws require you to at least check the distance from the blade to the rip fence at each side of the blade for every cut. Because the rip fence doesn't stay straight to the blade. They also lack enough power to make cuts in hardwood easily. Many are direct drive - blade mounts to the motor shaft - limiting depth of cut.

What I would call a decent table saw starts about $500 these days. A used saw could be had for less.

The news is better for CMSs. I think you can get a pretty usable 10 inch for around $100. I've seen reviews of Ryobis where they got a pretty decent grade. I use a 12 inch dual bevel Hitachi I bought used from reconditionedtoolsales.com for $150. Hitachi tools are at least half a step up from Ryobi's typical quality in my book. You can often get great buys on them reconditioned. I've had very good luck with reconditioned tool sales in general but others say they haven't.

The motor on my router table is also from Ryobi. An old R-500 plunge router - also long out of production. It has worked well for me for over 10 years and shows no signs of slowing down. I have an old AP-10 thickness planner I bought used for $100. All it needed was the blades sharpened. I planned about 150 bd ft on it so far and the blades are not even dull yet. Current Ryobi thickness planners are far from the best but usable according to the reviews I've seen. Some of their routers are OK, others maybe no so OK.

I buy lots of stuff at Harbor Freight but not many motorized things. I like my vibrating saw from them and I use it for sanding sometimes. The hook and loop pad is coming apart but it still works at this point. My right angle grinder is not from HD, it is from Northern Hydraulic. About the same quality. It has done a lot of work and is still working fine. I've seen reviews where people did a lot of work rebuilding and adjusting bandsaws from harbor freight and got a pretty good tool out of it. But I think I'd rather start with a Home Depot or Grizzly. For a list of the good stuff from Home Depot, you might want to visit BT3Central. They originally started to talk about BT3000 and then BT3100 table saws but have stayed together even though many use other table saws now.

For years I bought new tools when I needed them for a project I was working on. The project justified the tool - at least to me.

Jim

 

[bluedawg76]

in general, i'd say you get what you pay for. If you can accept the tool's limitations, then by all means. in some cases you learn more about the tool when having to adjust/shim/measure/ sight it repeatedly than if it just magically was properly aligned (at least that's what I keep telling myself!). For example, I have a craftsman TS that does a great job, but the aluminum fence can flex just a hair at the wrong time. So I screwed in a piece of 3/4" plywood on both sides and stiffened the fence up quite a bit. Now I just have to remember to add 3/4" to each cut.
now i tend to look for used tools if i can craigslist and what not. don't forget about ebay as well. i've picked up a few good orbital and belt sanders this way. However, I typically won't buy a tool unless it's no more than 50% the cost of the new one, unless it's a big ticket item like a TS, jointer, etc. i.e. worth it! As Fred said, ask folks here. they've been there, done that and seen it all!

Sam :BangHead:ccasion1:saw:

 

[merrill77]

I am very new to this site and woodworking in general. I find it quite relaxing hang out in the garage and toil, however I have literally no clue what I'm doing.

Get thee some books and magazines! I'd recommend Wood, Popular WWing, Shop Notes and Woodsmith for getting started. I see you're relatively close to me - I have a pretty extensive collection of magazines - I'd be happy to let you peruse my collection. I've learned a lot there...and of course you'll get a lot of questions answered here.

As for the tools - everyone had a different opinion on that. My advice would be to pick a project that is in your still level and then buy the tools you need. You can get a lot of good tools used, at about 1/2 price.

 

[ErnieM]

Like many of us, I started out with some pretty cheap machines ( still don't have many really good ones). I think there is a problem with beginning woodworkers and cheap tools. When something goes wrong, the beginner doesn't have any way of knowing if it's his fault (operator error) or the machines fault (bad design). Learning proper technique is difficult enough without throwing an inaccurate or otherwise unusable machine into the mix. If I had to do it all over (and I'm glad I don't) I think I would go with the best used machinery I could afford, and make learning to set them up properly my first priority.

Ernie

 

[Guy in Paradise]

Go quality

Like many starting with little excess income, I started with tools of low cost and quality. My skills were average and the tools never allowed me to improve. When I finally became financially able to buy the best, I immediately regretted not having done so thirty years earlier. I would be a much better woodworker now, and there would have been a lot less frustration along the way.

I have purchased, inherited, and used many a HF tool. I will never buy any major tool from them again and for any minor HF purchases I make I have low expectations of quality and endurance.

Reading good books and magazines is a good recommendation. Beyond the list previously provided, I might suggest Fine Woodworking and American Woodworker.

Good luck

 

[walnutjerry]

I am very new to this site and woodworking in general. I find it quite relaxing hang out in the garage and toil, however I have literally no clue what I'm doing.

As many have already said, there are a lot of magazines and books out there that will provide insight as to what you are doing. Practice and making the mistakes that come along with practice makes the experience stick with you. You DO learn from mistakes.

Are some of these discounters such as HF worth it?
How do I determine what the right tools are to purchase and when?

My opinion is gear your purchases to what you want to do. Ask yourself some questions. Is it a hobby or a business? Is it a need or a want? I was much more aware of what I bought after making my hobby a business. If it is a hobby situation, buy as good as you can afford. If it is a business, but the best you can afford for the production you want to achieve. But ask yourself, will it pay for itself?

Anyone know of some good general woodworking courses available in the Triangle?

Ask around about local woodworking clubs, classes at woodworking supply stores, etc.
Woodworking is a vast area-----go in the direction that interests you.

Anyways, sorry for the vague questions, but just hoping to start a dialogue.

Best,
Nate

BTW, are some of these icons for real?!?!?!:saw::BangHead::help::kamahlitu

Good luck with your choices.:gar-Bi, Jerry

 

[Glennbear]

There is very little I can add except to stress that when in doubt ASK !!! amongst the membership we have a total of hundreds of years of cumulative shop experience and folks here will answer your questions if asked. :wsmile: