To Fix or Adapt That is the Question

[Bryan S]

Discovered another goof (this thread) with the entertainment center last night when glueing on the face frame. The bottem is about 1/16 wider than the middle and the top

It's dificult to notice in the above pic but it is like this exagerated for clarity

The problem is the bottem section will be a drawer I had planed on insetting so it is flush with the face frames and will prolly become very obvious when the drawer is installed. All 3 dados were routed out at the same time with no changes in router depth so sometthing must have moved:BangHead:. the dado for the bottem panel is not as deep as the other 2.

Possible fixes?
1- Cut out bottem panel, rout new dados and install new panel. Dont want to go through all that work but it could be done.

2- Cut off side face frames and cut new face frames oversize to compensate for gaps between frame and drawer. Not too much extra work but opens up the possibility for more goofs that will have to be fixed.

3- Just redesign the drawer to overlap (Ithink I'm saying this right) the face frames thus covering up the fopa and go with bottem mounted drawer slides insted of side mounted full extenion slides (because of the angle). Sounds like the simplest solution.

Wht ya think? Any other suggestions

 

[Joe Scharle]

I'm thinking a slightly oversized face frame, squared up. And then use a bottom bearing pattern bit to flush the (1/32) outside edges of the face frame will make this hard to notice.

 

[DavidF]

When you make the drawer front make it over size only in width so that the top and bottom are still a tight fit. Then hand plane the ends at the same angle as the opening - a 1/32 is not going to take much planing. Leave the width a tight fit at this point.Then fit the drawer runners and after that plane all around the front to get the reveal you want - DAMHIKT, but it works and is invisable as you have no point of reference between the drawer front and the opening. This is actually a traditional way of fitting drawer fronts I suppose before the advent of jigs etc, mistakes were made in the construction of these little amounts. Traditionally a very small taper was planed front to back on the drawer edges so that it only went in half way, then after the sides were planed to fit, the taper was gradually reduced to fit perfectly.

 

[DIYGUY]

I second the suggestion and if you get it just so, you will be amazed at how satisfying it will be!

When you make the drawer front make it over size only in width so that the top and bottom are still a tight fit. Then hand plane the ends at the same angle as the opening - a 1/32 is not going to take much planing. Leave the width a tight fit at this point.Then fit the drawer runners and after that plane all around the front to get the reveal you want - DAMHIKT, but it works and is invisable as you have no point of reference between the drawer front and the opening. This is actually a traditional way of fitting drawer fronts I suppose before the advent of jigs etc, mistakes were made in the construction of these little amounts. Traditionally a very small taper was planed front to back on the drawer edges so that it only went in half way, then after the sides were planed to fit, the taper was gradually reduced to fit perfectly.

 

[JimD]

I do not understand how you intend to make the drawer but I agree with the others that this is fixable and will not be noticable. My kitchen island was supposed to have three drawers across the top that are the same size. They actually vary about 1/16 in width from each other due to my mistakes. I had to fit the drawers to the opening (they are not interchangable) but you do not see the difference looking at it.

I usually use baltic birch plywood for drawer sides and back but in this situation I would use solid wood. If you want to use metal drawer guides on the side, they would be a bit of a complication. They do not work smoothly unless the clearance is 1/2 to 1/2 + 1/32. Depending on the type, a little taper difference between the drawer and carcase could also be a problem. If the drawer tapers like the carcase it should work, however. A bottom mounted drawer guide might be easier. Wood on wood, you can just use solid wood for the drawer sides and plane to fit.

Making mistakes is part of woodworking. Figuring out if they are fixable and how to fix them is what separates success from scraps. I think this is fixable.

Jim

 

[Gotcha6]

It would also be a good chance to try out your hand planing skills if you don't have the router bit you need.

 

[TracyP]

This is one of those threads that I read over and over to get all of the good info to sink in to my hard head. I normally find that things I build come up with something a smidgen out of square. Keep the good info coming. Thank you for posting this thread Bryan, it is a lot of help to us beginners.

 

[Bryan S]

I do not understand how you intend to make the drawer but I agree with the others that this is fixable and will not be noticable. My kitchen island was supposed to have three drawers across the top that are the same size. They actually vary about 1/16 in width from each other due to my mistakes. I had to fit the drawers to the opening (they are not interchangable) but you do not see the difference looking at it.

I usually use baltic birch plywood for drawer sides and back but in this situation I would use solid wood. If you want to use metal drawer guides on the side, they would be a bit of a complication. They do not work smoothly unless the clearance is 1/2 to 1/2 + 1/32. Depending on the type, a little taper difference between the drawer and carcase could also be a problem. If the drawer tapers like the carcase it should work, however. A bottom mounted drawer guide might be easier. Wood on wood, you can just use solid wood for the drawer sides and plane to fit.

Making mistakes is part of woodworking. Figuring out if they are fixable and how to fix them is what separates success from scraps. I think this is fixable.

Jim

Jim I was thinking about making a drawer with a false front anyway but had not dercided and have some cherry with too much sapwood in it to use in visible areas. Should be more than good enough for this. Steve W had offerd to help me with dovetails and had not rulled that out but I've prolly got to go with a false front now and some type of locking rabbit joint for the drawers.

Dont have a good enough handplane for planning the ends but do have flush trim and pattern bits. Sounds like some sperimenting tomorrow.

 

[Bas]

Dont have a good enough handplane for planning the ends but do have flush trim and pattern bits. Sounds like some sperimenting tomorrow.

Since it's just one drawer, and 1/32", a block plane would probably suffice. Those aren't terribly expensive. Even a cheap one from Northern Tool or something will work, provided you sharpen the blade.

I had to fiddle with the drawers I built not too long ago. The cabinet was square (well, the second anyway, the first one.....), but two of the drawers weren't. I planed at least 1/16 in some places, fortunately I did use false fronts. But it's surprisingly easy to do, just keep fitting and planing (and fitting and planing and fitting and planing....).

But power tools work too. This is one case where a belt sander might actually come in handy. Or run the drawer sides through the planer on a sled, with a 1/32" shim on one side. That should give you the angle. Again, try to sneak up on it.

 

[DavidF]

Just to add a bit more info, I made my drawers with inset sides to give me room to work on the fronts. The sides were inset 5mm each side so I only had to deal with the drawer front when making the "adjustment". You would need to have this offset to use drawer slides with inset fronts anyway. I would not reccomend a belt sander, a few strokes with a hand plane will do the job.

If you need help with ot Bryan, I am not a million miles away, well about 25, down the 87. I am away all next week, but after that am happy to help.

 

[Bas]

You would need to have this offset to use drawer slides with inset fronts anyway. I would not recommend a belt sander, a few strokes with a hand plane will do the job.

Oh, good point. The solution certainly depends greatly on the drawer design. Certainly a good reason to go with inset sides - easy adjustments!

I agree a belt sander is not the best tool for the job, the more power tools I buy the more I appreciate hand tools. Not that I'm more accurate with hand tools, but I notice I'm messing things up before it's an unrecoverable disaster

 

[DavidF]

Oh, good point. The solution certainly depends greatly on the drawer design. Certainly a good reason to go with inset sides - easy adjustments!

I agree a belt sander is not the best tool for the job, the more power tools I buy the more I appreciate hand tools. Not that I'm more accurate with hand tools, but I notice I'm messing things up before it's an unrecoverable disaster

You're right there Bas, If I have screwed up I either have a router or a belt sander in my hand.....

 

[JimD]

I actually like to use a belt sander to fit drawers but my drawer sides are baltic birch plywood and the contruction is dovetailed so I would have to plane end grain of the front and the back (kind of since it is also plywood) which I am not confident I could do without chipout.

You have to be careful with a belt sander since it will remove wood pretty quickly with a coarse belt. I use a finer belt when I only have to remove a little. For this, if I used a belt sander which I probably would not with solid wood drawers, I would use a 220 grit or at most a 150 grit belt. A plane will keep things straighter and the edges more crisp than a sander. Planes are also more pleasant to use (until you have to sharpen the blade).

Jim

 

[DaveD]

I'd mount the drawer with the side glides and make a false front for the basic drawer box. That way you can make the front any size you want independent of the 'box'. You can always shim behind the glides to align them provided you have at least the 1/2" minimum space on each side.

I made a BIG steel frame plant stand for my daughter that had two 3'x3'x10" high drawers in the bottom of it. I didn't get the outside finished box for the drawers exact and they also got a little off when I fastened them to the steel frame. It was like a big erector set going together on site.

A couple 1/16" shims and the finished front and nobody but you and me will ever know.

 

[Steve W]

Bryan,

Is the part that is 1/16" longer at your original "correct" length, or is it 1/16" bigger than you expected?

If the bottom is your original length, I bet the face frame will go on there with very little to notice. If the slides are at the bottom, I don't think you'll have any interference at the top, since you need 1/2" on either side for clearance to accommodate the slides.

If the bottom is 1/16" longer than your plan, and you haven't made the face frame yet, make the frame's stile a little thicker than you would have on the side that's bowed. If you've made the frame but it's pocket-hole joined, you can take one of the stiles off and make a slightly wider one.

And yes, I still have my dovetail jig. :eusa_danc

HTH

:kermit: Steve