Tired of brushing on varnish!

[lnelson]

For 25+ years I have been brushing on varnish coats and am always thinking that there has to be a better and quicker way. That said, I know nothing about spray units, spray guns. viscosity, etc... Does anyone have a suggestion on a simple, relatively low cost spray system / method that produces a consistently good finish? One perception I have is that in the case of one or two cabinets it might take longer get set-up and to clean everything up than to just brush the finish on and be done with it?

For those of you who have made the transition, any suggestions for someone who might be ready to put his brushes aside?

 

[Ken Massingale]

Critter syphon sprayer. If I can spray a nice finish with it, any one can.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Larry, the first question would be, "Do you have an air compressor sufficient to run an HVLP gun?" If not, you'll probably need to consider one of the turbine type models.

Since I have an air compressor, I use an HVLP set-up similar to this one. I like the gravity feed style more than the suction type. If all you plan on spraying is topcoats (e.g. varnish, lacquer, shellac, poly, etc.) then a 1.4 or 1.5 nozzle is fine. If you intend to spray heavier paints, then you'll need a 2.0 nozzle, or larger.

Clean Up: As soon as I finish spraying, I empty the cup and pour in a few ounces of the appropriate solvent. Spraying the solvent through the gun will clean all the finish off the key internal parts. If I plan on reusing the gun within the next week, this is all the clean up I do.

If I'm at the end of a project, and the gun won't be used again for awhile, then I do a more thorough cleaning. For varnish, poly, or any other finish where the solvent is mineral spirits/paint thinner, I keep a large coffee can filled w/ mineral spirits. I disassemble the gun and immerse all the parts in the can overnight. Next day I rinse all the parts w/ water, then blow them out w/ air. I reassemble the gun, using mineral oil to lubricate all the threaded parts. For other finishes, like shellac and lacquer, I pour some solvent in a small cup and use a short bristle brush to clean the old finish off the outside of the gun. The internal parts were cleaned when I sprayed solvent through the gun.

As my quote at the bottom of this post says, this may not be the best way, or the only way, but it's worked for me for a long time. I've had my current gun for about 10 years and it still works as good as the day I got it.

Since you're in Climax, not far from me, if you want to come see my set-up, you're more than welcome. Just let me know.

Bill

 

[Jeff]

+1 to Ken's comments. It's not really that hard to get into spraying and become fairly good at it with practice and more practice on some scrap stuff (read cardboard boxes and then some wood scraps). One key is to use the right size spray tip for the finish and apply light coats so the surface build is slower than brushing.

The Earlex 5500 HVLP is a good entry level package that won't break the bank at about $300.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/earlexspraystation5500hvlpsystem.aspx

Thorough cleanup is straightforward and pretty quick, but it is a definite must so don't be casual about it. It's usually nothing more than water, DNA, or MS. Cheap stuff.

 

[Howard Acheson]

In my opinion, you don't want to spray an oil based paint or varnish. Because it is so slow drying, the overspray is in the form of a liquid mist. Any overspry will circulate throughout the finishing area leaving a sort of crust on any surface it lands on. The only practical way to spray an oil based finish is to have an efficient spray booth or spray outside.

Most spray finishers will spray fast drying materials like shellac, lacquer or waterbornes. Waterborne is the safest as the fumes are not explosive.

If you are considering spraying, I would recommend you buy a book called Spray Finishing by Charron. It will give you all the info you need about equipment sprayable finishes and technique.

 

[jmauldin]

I use HVLP also. However, you can also use a conventional spray gun. I have a 12 gal. 4 hp portable compressor in addition to my 80 gal 5 hp. I really see no difference in the results. The only advantage is that the HVLP system uses about half the product as the conventional (about 86% overspray with conventional as opposed to about 30 % with the HVLP). Of course with either system you have to thin with ms or water depending on what type of finish it is. Otherwise I agree with all the above.
Jim in Mayberry

 

[MrAudio815]

Very nice question. And Bill that's a great gun for the price.

So does spraying use more or less product and which holds up better or looks better? Spraying, brush, or wipe on?

 

[Bas]

I have the Earlex 5500, and I've been very happy with it.

Spraying isn't just about speeding up the process. Using a brush, I can very quickly apply a water-based finish to a cabinet. When you factor in cleanup time, it's practically a push compared to spraying. But spraying allows you to lay down an even coat on contoured surfaces, and really simplifies the use of something like shellac. Plus, when done correctly, there are no sags, drips, runs, or brush marks.

I have a simple spray booth in my shop (PVC pipe + shower curtains), which works great for indoor finishing. I have sprayed Waterlox a couple of times. I do this outside (overspray), then bring the work piece inside to dry. When spraying shellac, make sure you have plenty of ventilation. And always wear a good respirator.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you use more finish when spraying. Nothing beats a brush in terms of economy.

 

[ehpoole]

I use a gravity fed (cup on top) HVLP spray gun, and provided that one does not leave finish in it over night, it takes only minutes to clean up (well, it could be faster, but I'm very slow) so long as you do not allow the finish to start setting up in the gun -- in which case a full break down and clean out is warranted. It's OK to leave the finish in the cup between coats for some hours, just not overnight. Otherwise, empty the left-over finish, wipe out the bulk of the remaining finish in the cup, pour in an ounce or so of suitable solvent, swish solvent around to finish cleaning cup and, then run the solvent through the gun -- wipe the cup down once more then repeat once again with fresh solvent and you are generally done. Some people even save the second-round solvent to use as the first-round solvent in their next cleanup. Still, it is good to break it down and perform a thorough cleanup occasionally just to ensure it continues to break down easily (as in nothing sticking) and to inspect that no finish has built up in the meantime.

An HVLP setup need not be terribly expensive *if* you have an adequate air compressor on hand. Otherwise you are looking at having to invest in either a large air compressor or one of the turbine-powered spray solutions. To me the air compressor offers more versatility in that it can be put to many tasks, while others prefer the portability of the various turbine models... and that is largely a matter of personal preference provided that the spray gun itself is reasonably decent -- the rest is simply a matter of learning to use a spray gun properly, efficiently, and mastering technique.

If you spray finishes of significantly different viscosities, then you will probably want several spray guns (or, alternatively, several horn and needle conversion kits) with the appropriately sized needles and orifice for the finish's viscosity -- otherwise you get into having to learn various formulas to "thin" the finishes and it is generally best if you can minimize your need to thin (it just makes life easier).

Best of luck, but I suspect you will find spray finishing much more preferable/enjoyable than brushing on for many jobs.

 

[anna_seth]

I think air brushing can do the trick for you. It can save you so much time. You just need to invest in a good sprayer and practice first on some woods so that you can see how it works for you. Pretty much it's easy to master with a few practice. A.S.

 

[lnelson]

Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. From the posts offered, it looks like an HVLP set-up might be the best way for me to go. I suspect that my pancake compressor might not have the capacity to support the spraying so this will need to be an additional purchase. Interesting comment on the coatings in the one reply. For the most part, I have used the same varnish for years; Minwax satin. I might have to look into trying some sort of water-based product.

Another consideration is where to spray. I do not want to fill my shop with varnish overspray and don't really have room to set up any sort of spray booth. My concern about spraying outside is that the finish would pick up a bunch of dust , etc... before drying. Maybe this is not an issue with the water based materials as it sounds like they might dry faster.

Thanks again to everyone who posted a reply. Time do to some shopping for a compressor and spray system!

Regards,

Larry

 

[golfdad]

hey Larry...I too have the Earlex but the earlier version (5000) which Im thinking about selling to upgrade to a 5500. I spray entirely waterbased finish and many time leave it in the gun overnight with no problems. I switghed from Minwax yrs ago to General Finish's Pre-Cat Urethane..Excellent product when used over there sanding sealer. Holler back at me if you decide you might be interested in a used sprayer. Set up and cleanup with it are next to nothing:icon_thum

 

[Henry W]

Dirk: If Larry does not bite at this offer - others might be interested (me perhaps?).

Let us know.

Henry

 

[Jeff]

I'm going to be a devil's advocate and disagree with a few points mentioned above. This is based on my experience which is not extensive, but I've been pleased with the spray projects that I've done so far. Rubbing a hand over them doesn't elicit an "OMG, dust nibs" reaction.

A dedicated spray booth is ideal, but few of us have ideal places to spray so we improvise and make do with what we have. Sure, dust nibs and pollen particles can be problematic but aren't show stoppers if your timing is right.

A refrigerator or freezer box from the local appliance store is free, recyclable, and makes a suitable backdrop for outdoor spraying when the weather and wind cooperates. The overspray from an HVLP turbine is pretty minimal if you have the correct nozzle size and your gun settings properly adjusted for light coats.

You're not limited to water borne finishes by any means so I'll debunk that suggestion. The solvents in shellac (alcohol) and varnishes, etc. (petroleum based) are more volatile than the water and other carriers (glycol based ethers) used in a water borne finish so the idea that water borne dries faster and pick up less dust is a myth.

You should try some different finishes in your own hands and make your own decision. :icon_scra