The Plane Truth

[Jim Murphy]

One of my presents, which was NOT on my list, was a FOOTPRINT plane. Some research indicates that this is sold by Amazon and others for around thirty bucks. See here: Amazon.com: Footprint 280205 Professional Smooth Plane: Tools & Hardware Dont'cha love in'laws.

Okay, after two hours flattening the sole plate, I can see my nose hair after working on 1/2" plate glass, from 180 grit up to 1500 grit. Of course, WCPE was helping. (WCPE is a radio station that plays classical music. I was listening to some opera I never heard of. Usually, they play good workshop stuff, and when they don't, I work on my French with CDs.)

Est'ce vous voudriez boire de la biere? Avec moi? Chez moi? D'accord.

Now, I ain't dumb enough to think this "made in communist china" tool has an acceptable blade, BUT

BUT

Supposing I purchased a Hock blade for this Chini plane and ScarySharp'd it.

Tell my why a Lie Nielson at 10X the price would be a better plane. I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for information and advice.

 

[erasmussen]

I bought a cheap plane, flatened and smoothed the sole, flatned and smoothed the cap iron where it contacts the blade, sharpned and honed the blade.
I cuts great, nice thin shavings, BUT OF COURSE I DONT USE IT EVERY DAY and I am sure the blade will not hold an edge for too long:lol::lol:

Je ne bois pas de la bière

 

[NCPete]

Ich trinke gern Bier, aber habe ick kein Bier hier zu Hause jetzt. Schade.

Je bois de la biere, mais je n'ais pas de la biere a la maison.

Anna aschrub al beer, wa lakin, ma endi aiyu beer fi al bait. (arabic transliteration, easier if I could do it in Arabic characters.... but, not sure I could remember which ones on this keyboard would be which )

 

[mkepke]

I think if you put a Hock blade in it, a Lie Nielsen would no longer be 10x the price.

I personally don't think that a LN is worth the cost of admission, but the difference in materials and workmanship should be obvious if you ever get the chance to compare the two side by side.

I have not used this model of Footprint plane, but the usual weaknesses with low-end planes are the number of hours spent tuning the plane into proper working order (you pay with your time or your money), the parts tend to be thin - lacking in mass and material, e.g. the frog has a small bearing surface, the adjuster is thin sheet metal and the tolerances are poor - wide mouth, lots of backlash in the adjuster.

Your plane may suffer from none of these problems and even if it does, it may be entirely suitable for whatever tasks you have in store for it. But it most likely will not have what you might call the performance 'headroom' of the comparable LN.

So, go ahead and use the Footprint. You'll know when (if) you outgrow it.

FWIW, I use a Primus smoother. It is less than half the cost of a LN and I think it's wonderful.

-Mark

 

[Deacon Shuster]

Like mkepke said, you pay in either time or money. I spent about 7 hours tuning a brand new Stanley #93 shoulder plane and it is still only an acceptable performer. Every time I pick it up I know that it is not the best tool that I could have bought and that I have so much time invested in it that I will never get rid of it.

I once read that you should buy the best tools that you can afford. In my experience this is the best advice you can take. Look into the company that makes the tool that you are looking for. How is it produced (mass produced or hand crafted), where is it made (US-standards for quality, standard measurements, Foreign-converted measurements and few standards on quality of materials in less developed countries), does it have features that you don't need, is it a tool that you want to use? Get educated :BangHead: and buy the best tool for you and for the job.

I like to buy US when possible and go out of my way to look for tools made in this country. The folks of this nation have supported me and my family through the last few years and I do what I can to support them too, regardless of their politics, religion, whatever. It takes all kinds to make us what we are. At the same time I don't believe that you are some kind of a "communist sympathizer" (it was a gift...from a communist sympathizer):lol:

My $.02 turned into the price of a new LN, sorry

 

[Larry Rose]

In my 30 some years woodworking, I've bought a boat load of El Cheapo tools of various types. The vast majority of them were next to worthless and if they were useable they didn't last long. I finaly bought some old Stanley planes and learned to tune them up. Lo and behold, you can smooth wood with a plane. I still have a new (blue) Stanley and I still can't make it work:BangHead: . Every once in a while I'll drag it out and try again...no dice. Some time back I made the huge mistake of wandering into Woodcraft in Raleigh and asked if the L-Ns really worked that good. The salesman took a 41/2 in the back and let me try it. I was hooked, bought it and 18-20 of their tools later there is no end to the slippery slope . Be very carefull and don't get too close to one...you'll be sorry!!! I will have to say that I bought an Anant #3 just out of curiosity. After a while tuning up it does work fairly well and I gave it to my son who is just starting out in wood working.

 

[froglips]

My favorite saying.... "You gotta eat it somewhere".

If you trade upfront price, you pay for it in time tuning.

Tighter tolerances and higher quality materials seem to be the difference (IMHO).

I've found "feel" is the big intangible difference. A L-N block plane just "feels" better than a Stanley 110.

A better blade generally translates into holding an edge longer and less chatter. On the other hand, its more work to sharpen and hone, but you need do it less often.

Jim

 

[Toddler]

"Buy the best, cry once. . . "

 

[Larry Rose]

Froglips, ...and they shur is purty....

 

[froglips]

I hope you are talking bout pruty planes, not purty frog lips.......

 

[Larry Rose]

Planes thank you.

 

[Gofor]

Good thread. Can anyone comment on the difference between L-N and Lee Valley planes? Particularly the bench planes?
:bquestion
Go

 

[NCPete]

yup, I can comment on the differences. one costs more than the other :slap:

 

[mkepke]

Like mkepke said, you pay in either time or money. I spent about 7 hours tuning a brand new Stanley #93 shoulder plane and it is still only an acceptable performer.
<snip>

Perhaps as a bit of an example, I went the opposite route and purchased the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane.

I did not have to do one thing to it..it came ready to work out of the box. 7 hours saved ?

No opinion about LV vs. LN, sorry. I would comment that the LV bench planes are at least equivalent to the good quality Stanley Bailey-pattern bench planes of the past. Thousands of men made their living using those planes, so the LV's should stand up to us wood-plinkers. Are you more demanding ?

But my advice of course, is to buy used Stanley Bailey planes where possible Best bang for the buck in the common sizes.

-Mark

 

[Gofor]

No opinion about LV vs. LN, sorry. I would comment that the LV bench planes are at least equivalent to the good quality Stanley Bailey-pattern bench planes of the past. Thousands of men made their living using those planes, so the LV's should stand up to us wood-plinkers. Are you more demanding ?

But my advice of course, is to buy used Stanley Bailey planes where possible Best bang for the buck in the common sizes.

-Mark

I have a real good type 15 #6 Bailey that I got for about $35 (Thanks again Monty for the heads up), and I am definitely not more demanding than that. It is the best I have and is a pleasure to use. However, it took me about 16 hours of flattening and fettling to get it so, (take into account I had never done that before). I have bought 2 #5s which weren't what I had hoped, and am having trouble getting one good one out of the two. The #6 takes half the effort and does twice the job. I have also been looking for a good #8 and/or #7, Most on e-bay that look as good as the #6 originally did skyrocket to over $100 in the last 5 hours of bidding. A couple of bad buys and I can afford an LV, but I think LV stops at the #6. So I guess I'll stay on the hunt for a good Bailey.
Patience is a virtue that I am still working on, but in this quest I will "endeavor to persevere".

Thanks

Go

 

[sapwood]

Attending the MWTCA meet in Hillsborough is a greaty way to find "Truth about Handplanes" First, there is quite a variety to peruse and second, there are several members of MWTCA, NCWWer, and TWA attending that seem to enjoy sharing their knowledge. I've been the lucky recipient of good advice at the two meets I've attended that enabled me to make good buys.

My $.0002,
Roger

 

[Deacon Shuster]

Go,

Veritas offers a Bevel-up Jointer for $245 (without shipping). LN has the same type of Bevel-up Jointer for $295 and a standard type Bench Jointer (#7) for $399.99.

I have a Bevel-up Jack plane and I really like it. They have fewer parts and thicker blades. This combination seems to make for less chance of vibration (the concept works for almost any tool).

Thanks Mark for rubbing it in :rolf: !! I actually learned from that one :BangHead: :slap:

Hope this helps,
Doug

 

[Gofor]

Thanks for the idea, Roger. I'm thinking the 4 hour drive and $50 gas will be well spent if only for the advice and knowledge (can't put a price on that). I'm a bit gunshy of buying sight unseen so being able to eyeball a prospective purchase would be great. Hope I can make a meeting in the near future. It would be really nice to meet some of the folks behind the names.

Go

 

[Toddler]

$245??? Wow. And here I am all excited that I just got my first new handplane, a Stanley #5 for $40 down at Rockler. I figure with a few hours of work with sandpaper on a piece of glass, it'll be a decent plane.

I have a smaller plane from my father in law that he used for years and that I'll ask about at the show in Hillsborough. I think he'd get a kick out of it if I started using it. We've had it on our mantle with two other wooden planes for years.

Todd

after posting this I went searching. Guess I'm really cheap! : Bridge City Tool Works, a division of Fine Tools, LLC

 

[mkepke]

Another thought..there are several reputable internet dealers for used planes. The planes can be bought ready-to-use in most cases. No cracked cheeks, no missing parts, no hours spent fettling.

Here are a couple I've made purchases from:
Patrick Leach at http://www.supertool.com/oldtools.htm
Sandy Moss at TOOLS

Not to be too blunt, but if that new #5 is untouched, I'd return it and spend that money on something like this #4 from Sandy:

http://www.sydnassloot.com/p5.htm

(I don't care for the war-ration #5 Sandy is selling or I'd have suggested that. A #4 or a #5 should be one of your first planes).

-Mark