Sutherland Welles Murdocks Hard Sealer

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thsb

New User
Tim
It seems very expensive so i have avoided it for a long time. But i need to finish something and want an alternative to waterlox (which i normally use). I had been tempted before but couldn't pull the trigger. I ordered a gallon of the hard sealer and a quart of the Hard Oil. 179.00 total after shipping!

I am willing to pay that much if it is an easy and superior finish. I like waterlox very much for that reason. I just don't like how long and how strong it smells.

AskWoodMan on Youtube recommends it, and he was a big proponent of Waterlox before he switched.

I will let folks know how it goes-looked for comments about it on various woodworking sites but found the info to be limited, and i assume there hasn't been a lot of experimentation because of the cost.

tim
 

Touchwood

New User
Don
Tim
I've been using Sutherland Welles products for years, but never the Murdocks line...usually just polymerized tung-oil with citrus based solvent. Environmentally safe for your lungs and nature.
Frank Welles used to live in Durham NC. I met him and saw his plant in the early 90's. He doesn't boil the oil he imports from SA..it's a proprietary polymerizing process. His original business was refinishing estate flooring and Murdocks was developed for that. Anything I've ever used of his products were of top quality and I have a bunch of furniture pieces finished 20 years ago that still look great.
Hope this helps.
Don
 

thsb

New User
Tim
i should have tried some of that too. i just went with what they said was most durable and most waterlox-like nd recommended for furniture (my next two projects are beds) . but it sounds like yours has been plenty durable.

It is a cool side note that he is from Durham.
 

Touchwood

New User
Don
i should have tried some of that too. i just went with what they said was most durable and most waterlox-like nd recommended for furniture (my next two projects are beds) . but it sounds like yours has been plenty durable.

It is a cool side note that he is from Durham.

Frank had rented a building down by the railroad tracks near Alston Ave. He later moved to Raleigh near Hillsborough St. downtown. He lives in Vermont now. He was originally selling his products through Garrett-Wade and I guess he still does, but you're better off buying from him direct (if you're lucky you get to talk with Mary on the phone...she's a great source of information on using the stuff).
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Sutherland Welles products are new to me so it's interesting to explore what they're about. +1 to using an orange/citrus based solvent instead of petroleum hydrocarbons like MS, etc. An orange grove in a can that'll smell nice while the solvent evaporates.

I ordered a gallon of the hard sealer and a quart of the Hard Oil.

Murdoch's line...those are polyurethanes, not wiping varnishes like Waterlox.

http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/instructions/hardsealer/Builtins-HardSealer.pdf

Other S-W products are also tung oil based and may use hydrocarbon solvents or citrus solvents (that's Botanical).

http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/pdf/CompareProducts.pdf

Tim, keep us posted as you experiment with your new finish.
 

thsb

New User
Tim
Jeff, thanks for looking it up. it was confusing which product to try. i think i will use this up and then try the polymerized tung-oil that Touchwood uses.

most of the stuff that i make will get use from my kids so i like a finish that can take a lot of abuse (not that my kids aren't perfectly behaved all the time). I thought waterlox was a great product for that. trying to find an alternative that i like and this was what was recommended by a couple of places (including the folks at sutherland welles, although they may have just been confirming my ignorant bias toward the product and didn't feel like trying to change my mind about which product was best for my use).
 

Touchwood

New User
Don
Just a suggestion. If you're using tung-oil the first time, there's a bit of learning..but it's very easy. Check out the Sutherland Welles site..there's a video on how to mix different concentrations. That way you just buy an equal amount of High Luster (50%) and solvent..preferably Di-Citrosul....and mix up the concentrations you need.

http://sutherlandwelles.com/videos.html

You want to start with pretty dilute solutions to get maximum penetration. A tung-oil finish is more in the wood than on the wood like varnish. You'll use maybe 5 or 10 times the amount on the first coat and much less later. The deep penetration really makes the grain pop out. Don't worry if it looks blotchy..that soon goes away.
By the time you get to high luster (50% oil/solvent mix) you only use a bit. I usually wind up with 4 or 5 coats total, and 600 or 800 grit Mirka Autonet on the final.

If the piece gets scratched , a quick rub with #00000 steel wool or something similar moistened with tung-oil will fix it.

There are wood pieces in Chinese museums over 1000 years old that were finished with tung-oil and still looking good.

Hope this is useful.

Don
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
A supplement to Touchwood's info about how to use Tung Oil.

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/products/oils/tung-oil-wood-finishes/#howtouse

Now a semi-rant for general information. By and large Tung oil is tung oil and Citrus solvent is citrus solvent but there may be a big disparity in the cost of these products from different manufacturers. Marketing hype: "Our Pure Tung Oil and Citrus solvent are the best on the planet; use them and your wood will be grateful forever." Here are two very similar products and I'll bet that the wood won't know the difference but your wallet will.

Sutherland-WellesHi-Lustre$52/qt55-60% Di-Citrusol solvent
Real Milk Paint Co.Half and Half$24/qt45-55% Citrus solvent

More about the mysterious citrus solvents and their source.

http://industrial.florachem.com/files/products/d-Limonene_-_PDS.pdf?1444399306
 

Touchwood

New User
Don
A supplement to Touchwood's info about how to use Tung Oil.

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/products/oils/tung-oil-wood-finishes/#howtouse

Now a semi-rant for general information. By and large Tung oil is tung oil and Citrus solvent is citrus solvent but there may be a big disparity in the cost of these products from different manufacturers. Marketing hype: "Our Pure Tung Oil and Citrus solvent are the best on the planet; use them and your wood will be grateful forever." Here are two very similar products and I'll bet that the wood won't know the difference but your wallet will.

Sutherland-WellesHi-Lustre$52/qt55-60% Di-Citrusol solvent
Real Milk Paint Co.Half and Half$24/qt45-55% Citrus solvent

More about the mysterious citrus solvents and their source.

http://industrial.florachem.com/files/products/d-Limonene_-_PDS.pdf?1444399306








Jeff...you seem very knowledgeable on the topic. Just wondering if you've actually used either of the products on a project yourself? All the furniture pieces in my gallery were finished with S-W oil.
Don
 

thsb

New User
Tim
woodworking products are interesting. I just put a first coat on the legs of the daybed tonight. seems very good. clear but pulls out the grain very very nicely. and goes on as easily as Waterlox which is a very big bonus for me.

anyway, your point is probably very valid Jeff, but If one finds a product that they like, and know where to get that product, and feel like that product saves them time and energy, and have the money to pay for it, it can be a very good value despite a higher price.

Searching around for the different components that re-create the exact product that works so well may be more labor intensive and never quite prefect so many would choose to focus their energy elsewhere.

crap, as i type this i realize i left the lid off the can.... good night!
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Don. I'm not that knowledgable about the topic but my chemists training prompts my curiosity so I start nosing around and trying to learn more. Kind of like "what is this and how does it work?" An answer leads to another question and the Sherlock Holmes cascade begins.

I have used only the tung oils and citrus solvent (home mixed at 1:1) from the Real Milk Paint Co. Just a couple of experiments to satisfy my curiosity and they behaved just fine. Your Gallery finishes with S-W are impressive. My stodgy comfort zone is Waterlox and dewaxed shellac but there's always more to learn and experiment with.

Tim. I'm not bashing your choice of the S-W products, just noting that there are alternatives that may perform just as well. :dontknow:
 

thsb

New User
Tim
Jeff, I don't feel like you were bashing the choice. I always like your research and your take on things. I may Have been doing some pre- rationalization in case I end up liking the product!
 
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