Streaky wax finish ?!?!

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PeteM

Pete
Corporate Member
:-( First try for a wax finish and I must be doing something wrong. I first tried some Briwax, cleaned that off and tried some Myland's. Applied with 0000 steel wool. Tried buffing by hand and then with a pad chucked in a drill. Everything I've tried has come out streaky-blotchy-generally ugly.

Sooooooo . . . . what am I doing wrong :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

The base finish is Waterlox Original. It was to glossy so I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and am now trying to get a decent coat of wax on it. Looks good if wasn't all streaky.

pete
 
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dozer

Moderator
Mike
Pete I could be wrong but it sounds like you are putting the wax on to thick which will cause it to streak and be blotchy. I have done some wax finishes and when I was first trying to do them I was having the same problem, So I started putting the wax coat on much thinner had had great results.
 

rhett

New User
rhett
I agree with Dozer. It is very easy to put to much wax/uneven coating on if not careful. This will sound off, but when I experience this problem I reapply a coat of wax to reactivate what is on the piece. Let it get hazy like on a car and rebuff with a cotton cloth. The key is to keep flipping the cloth to a fresh side so you are removing the excess wax instead of just spreading it around. If you keep repeating this process, it should lead to an even finish. You may want to pick up the current FWW as there is an article on applying wax finishes. Good luck and try not to get to frustrated.
 

PeteM

Pete
Corporate Member
This is the table I'm working on. The legs and aprons are Brazillian Cherry and the wax looks fine on them. The burl veneer top is the problem. The waterlox finish came out like glass we wanted a softer sheen.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try thinner coats and check out the FWW article.

pete

Photo issues - i think you can see it here:
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/607/Sm.jpg
 
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J

jeff...

Pete, I never heard of waterlox, but it looks like it's a marine finish made from linseed oil and beeswax. Seeing it's already made with a non silicon based wax, could you rub the finish out with a slurry of pumice stone, followed up by slurry of rottenstone, like you would with a lacquer finish? (experts chime in here please) waterlox sounds like it's a very soft finish, this may be to aggressive. I really don't know if this will work, since I don't believe I've worked with marine finish on piece of furniture. It's sounding like your looking to adjust the finish sheen by bringing down the shine some. Rubbing out pumice and rottenstone is common way to adjust sheen, steel may work too - I just don't know. Wished I knew more about this type of finish so I could offer some sound advise.

Good Luck...


 
J

jeff...

Jeff... more than likely if he is using Waterlox it's the Original Sealer/Finish which is a oil/varnish blend.
https://www.waterlox.com/desktopmodules/fathomecom/Catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?ct=24

It does cure up pretty hard and does rub out well once fully cured.

Me thinks the issue is too much wax and possibly not enough cure time. The solvents in the wax can soften a not full cured varnish finish.

MTCW,
Dave:)
Just googled "Waterlux Orginal" and came up wih this ---

http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/product_information.htm

I don't know, never used it before. Is it a popular finish for furniture? seems pretty expensive for just being BLO and beeswax.
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
Jeff....I am not understanding where you are finding the BLO and Beeswax components to Waterlox. From the link you provided -

Waterlox Original Wood Finish
The Waterlox varnish products are one of my favorites. On a scale from 1-10 that I use where 10 is the best possible coating you can buy that is easy to use, repairable, and durable, Waterlox is at an 8 or 9 level. Oil-based varnishes are combinations of a drying oil such as Tung or linseed and one or more hard resins. The best resins to use for this purpose can only be dissolved in oil at very high temperatures. Waterlox has a combination of natural and synthetic resins that are of the highest quality for use in varnishes and are usually reserved for outdoor and marine varnish use. Waterlox is a "long-oil" varnish because it has an oil-length or content of 86% Some hobbyist books state that long-oil varnishes are best for outdoor use and short oil varnishes are best for furniture. Actually this statement is backwards as the resin content determines how much protection an oil-based varnish can provide. Therefore most Marine varnishes actually only come in high gloss because they are comprised of 40-50 resin. Drying oils breakdown under the stress of ultraviolet light, so you actually want more resin than oil for outdoor use. Also contrary to popular belief is the fact that indoor environments are more stressful on wood than outdoor environments are in terms of wood movement. Proof of this lies in the fact that unfinished wood can and must be stored outdoors (on in an unheated garage) and not indoors in the basement.
Waterlox can be applied using a brush or by wiping it on. At average humidity levels, add 5-10% by volume of VM&P Naphtha to the Waterlox if you brush it on, or add 10-20% of odorless mineral spirits if you are wiping Waterlox on. Odorless mineral spirits, mineral spirits, and VM&P Naphtha really only differ in composition by the amount of naphtha contained in them. Naphtha is a fast evaporating aliphatic (straight-chained hydrocarbon) petroleum solvent. What's left in regular mineral spirits, and in a higher concentration in the odorless variety, are paraffins which are also known as alkanes in organic chemistry. Natural bristle brushes are ideal for brushing varnish. For wiping Waterlox, use the lint-less shop towels made by Kimberly Clark or Scott.
Waterlox can be rubbed-out and polished like any furniture varnish. I recommend waiting about 2 weeks if possible before rubbing-out this varnish, longer if you use the high-gloss version. Start with 400 grit paper and move up to about 800-1000 grit. Then move to 4F pumice and then rottenstone or automotive rubbing compound. Lastly you can use automotive polishing and glazing compounds to achieve as much gloss as you want. To save on elbow grease, use an automotive buffer and have at least two lambs wool bonnets to use - one for immediate compounding and one for "cleaning" the surface after compounding.

Waterlox is a great furniture finish, although a little more pricey than other finishes. It builds very well, and offers great protection, that is repairable. There are many formulations of Waterlox, one of the main one is the high gloss "gym floor" finish, and the popular Orig. Sealer/Finish which is a great all around furniture varnish.
Waterlox tip 101 - don't buy in bulk, buy only what you think that you will need in a short time period. If you have to store it for a long time period try to displace as much of the air in the can with something like marbles or re-pour into a container that you can squeeze the air out of easily. It starts to cure once the can is open and in a short time will become a gelatinous blob :eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:

Dave:)
 

Howard Acheson

New User
Howard
Waterlox Original Gloss and Waterlox Original Satin are phenolic resin and tung oil varnishes. The Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish is a phenolic resin and tung oil varnish also but contains more oil. It's a softer finish than the Gloss or Satin.

As to the wax problem, I agree that too much wax has probably been applied. For most applications, only a thin coat should be applied, then buffed out. At most add one more coat but in most cases this is not needed. Wax can not be "built up". Following coats dissolve the prior coats. Too much wax or too many coats will lead to streaky appearence. To clean it up. wipe off the existing wax with mineral spirits and wipe dry with paper towels. Then apply one thin coat and buff it out.
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
This is the table I'm working on. The legs and aprons are Brazillian Cherry and the wax looks fine on them. The burl veneer top is the problem. The waterlox finish came out like glass we wanted a softer sheen.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try thinner coats and check out the FWW article.

pete

Photo issues - i think you can see it here:
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/607/Sm.jpg

Pete, that table looks great. It's hard to see the finish, but the design is outstanding. I would love to see some more pictures of it when you get the chance.
Dave:)
 
J

jeff...

Jeff....I am not understanding where you are finding the BLO and Beeswax components to Waterlox. From the link you provided -

Waterlox Original Wood Finish
The Waterlox varnish products are one of my favorites. On a scale from 1-10 that I use where 10 is the best possible coating you can buy that is easy to use, repairable, and durable, Waterlox is at an 8 or 9 level. Oil-based varnishes are combinations of a drying oil such as Tung or linseed and one or more hard resins. The best resins to use for this purpose can only be dissolved in oil at very high temperatures. Waterlox has a combination of natural and synthetic resins that are of the highest quality for use in varnishes and are usually reserved for outdoor and marine varnish use. Waterlox is a "long-oil" varnish because it has an oil-length or content of 86% Some hobbyist books state that long-oil varnishes are best for outdoor use and short oil varnishes are best for furniture. Actually this statement is backwards as the resin content determines how much protection an oil-based varnish can provide. Therefore most Marine varnishes actually only come in high gloss because they are comprised of 40-50 resin. Drying oils breakdown under the stress of ultraviolet light, so you actually want more resin than oil for outdoor use. Also contrary to popular belief is the fact that indoor environments are more stressful on wood than outdoor environments are in terms of wood movement. Proof of this lies in the fact that unfinished wood can and must be stored outdoors (on in an unheated garage) and not indoors in the basement.
Waterlox can be applied using a brush or by wiping it on. At average humidity levels, add 5-10% by volume of VM&P Naphtha to the Waterlox if you brush it on, or add 10-20% of odorless mineral spirits if you are wiping Waterlox on. Odorless mineral spirits, mineral spirits, and VM&P Naphtha really only differ in composition by the amount of naphtha contained in them. Naphtha is a fast evaporating aliphatic (straight-chained hydrocarbon) petroleum solvent. What's left in regular mineral spirits, and in a higher concentration in the odorless variety, are paraffins which are also known as alkanes in organic chemistry. Natural bristle brushes are ideal for brushing varnish. For wiping Waterlox, use the lint-less shop towels made by Kimberly Clark or Scott.
Waterlox can be rubbed-out and polished like any furniture varnish. I recommend waiting about 2 weeks if possible before rubbing-out this varnish, longer if you use the high-gloss version. Start with 400 grit paper and move up to about 800-1000 grit. Then move to 4F pumice and then rottenstone or automotive rubbing compound. Lastly you can use automotive polishing and glazing compounds to achieve as much gloss as you want. To save on elbow grease, use an automotive buffer and have at least two lambs wool bonnets to use - one for immediate compounding and one for "cleaning" the surface after compounding.

Waterlox is a great furniture finish, although a little more pricey than other finishes. It builds very well, and offers great protection, that is repairable. There are many formulations of Waterlox, one of the main one is the high gloss "gym floor" finish, and the popular Orig. Sealer/Finish which is a great all around furniture varnish.
Waterlox tip 101 - don't buy in bulk, buy only what you think that you will need in a short time period. If you have to store it for a long time period try to displace as much of the air in the can with something like marbles or re-pour into a container that you can squeeze the air out of easily. It starts to cure once the can is open and in a short time will become a gelatinous blob :eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:

Dave:)

Yep Dave, your right, I'm wrong. It's some kind of BLO or Tung oil and resin stuff. It's kinda like Marvels Mystery Oil - no one really knows what it is. I'm glad to see that it can be rubbed out with pumice and rottenstone. This tells me it's a right hard finish. I'm still kinda wondering why it's good for cement and furniture at the same time :eusa_thin it seems like quite a finish there.

http://www.waterlox.com/desktopmodules/fathomecom/Catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?ct=24
  • Use on interior wood surfaces including floors, windows, doors, cabinetry, woodwork, tables, furniture, bar tops, picture frames, fly fishing rods, gun stocks, and various woodworking projects.
  • Also excellent for use as a sealer, primer, tie-coat or paint additive to improve adhesion.
  • Exceptional adhesion to oily, dense, exotic woods like teak, rosewood, and Ipe.
  • Use on porous interior surfaces such as slate, brick, stone, tile, linoleum or cement to seal and prevent chalking and dusting*.
  • For exterior projects as a sealer only, use 2 coats to prime, followed by 1 or 2 coats of Marine Finish.
*As with all projects, apply to a small test area to be sure that the final result is as expected. For slate, brick, stone and concrete, you may need only one coat to penetrate and seal.
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
Yep Dave, your right, I'm wrong. I'm still kinda wondering why it's good for cement and furniture at the same time :eusa_thin it seems like quite a finish there.

http://www.waterlox.com/desktopmodules/fathomecom/Catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?ct=24
  • Use on interior wood surfaces including floors, windows, doors, cabinetry, woodwork, tables, furniture, bar tops, picture frames, fly fishing rods, gun stocks, and various woodworking projects.
  • Also excellent for use as a sealer, primer, tie-coat or paint additive to improve adhesion.
  • Exceptional adhesion to oily, dense, exotic woods like teak, rosewood, and Ipe.
  • Use on porous interior surfaces such as slate, brick, stone, tile, linoleum or cement to seal and prevent chalking and dusting*.
  • For exterior projects as a sealer only, use 2 coats to prime, followed by 1 or 2 coats of Marine Finish.
*As with all projects, apply to a small test area to be sure that the final result is as expected. For slate, brick, stone and concrete, you may need only one coat to penetrate and seal.
Jeff.... I wasn't out to prove you wrong, hopefully no offense taken :eusa_pray

The concrete aspect is a very interesting one. I would guess because it is porous, like wood, that the finish would penetrate and seal the pores, and after a couple of applications start to form a film on the surface that would be protective. Similar to an epoxy garage floor finish :dontknow:

Dave:)
 
J

jeff...

Jeff.... I wasn't out to prove you wrong, hopefully no offense taken :eusa_pray

Dave:)
Dave stop that :slap: the truth is when I'm wrong, I'm wrong and once I realize I'll wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. Absolutely no offense even thought of over here.
 

dancam

Dan
Corporate Member
Pete,

I agree with the comments on too much wax most likely causing the pblm. One method I've used is to apply the wax sparingly , let dry to a haze and then buff lightly with a clean pad of 0000 steel wool (I use Liberon steel wool...no oil) and then a follow up buffing with a soft cotton pad. The light buffing with the steel wool generates some heat and spreads the light wax as well as picking up any excess (keep opening the steel wool fold to expose a fresh surface). Been using this method for years and been happy w/the results.

Dan C.
 

Joe Scharle

Joe
Corporate Member
I first tried some Briwax

From this month's FWW p.55:

"I avoid toluene waxes such as Briwax for a number of reasons.
First, I dislike their strong odor; second, toluene is most likely to damage a finish that is not fully cured; third, I find they harden very fast, making them somewhat difficult to work with."
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
The best way I have found to apply wax to a hard finish and large surface is with a ROS. If it has a hook-loop pad, throw a piece of terry cloth under it and spread the wax with it. It will work it into all irregularities in the surface and you can see/feel as it evens out the coat. Throw on more wax as needed as you will see when it stops spreading. After it dries, take a piece of terry cloth first to buff, using the same method, and then use the inside of a piece of cloth from old piece sweat pants/sweat shirt, etc. I have never used Briwax, tho. Mainly have used Johnsons on furniture. The wax application pads for a car polisher works also. Same concept.
Don't use the lambs wool pads as they can be agressive enough to buff through the finish.

JMTCW

Go
 

PeteM

Pete
Corporate Member
UPDATE: I watched the FWW video and tried his method of application by putting a bit of wax inside a swatch of cheese cloth. That seemed to do the trick.

However, I've been messing around with the finish of this table so long I got PO'ed, stripped it all off and started over again. The trouble started when I tried rubbing out the Waterlox. First it was to glossy. Then to dull. Never got it to just the right sheen. So this time I'm doing a good old oil finish. Much easier to control.

pete
 

Howard Acheson

New User
Howard
>> It's some kind of BLO or Tung oil and resin stuff. It's kinda like Marvels Mystery Oil - no one really knows what it is.

There is nothing magic or mysterious about Waterlox Original Finishes. They are a pretty standard varnish where the varnish is made from a phenolic resin and tung oil. Varnish is made by mixing and heating a resin (in this case phenolic resin) and a drying oil (in this case tung oil). Then thinners are added to allow it to be brushed and to flow out smooth.

Most marine exterior clear finishes are made with phenolic resins and tung oil as it is more water resistant and more scratch resistant than varnishes made with other resins and oils.
 
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