Strange Table Design

[Jeff]

I'm curious about these. The thought was triggered by Larry Rose's recent post about "Scrubbed Pine" tables. It appears that these originated in Europe sometime in the mid-1800s as farmhouse kitchen work tables, but they could include "guest boards" at each end so they'd serve as a dining table as well. Could these be precursors to extension tables with leaves in the center?

Couldn't find design info so I just kinda put together what seemed like the concept. :dontknow:

The top is a standard one with breadboard ends and the "guest boards" sit at each end, supported by sliding arms that telescope back under the table when not in use.

Have any of you ever built one of these? Pros/cons?

Here's a modern version that sells for high $.

http://www.hawleysfinewoodworking.com/

 

[RayH]

Jeff,

I can't really be sure from the pictures, but that looks a lot like a table I have. Only on mine the extra leaves store under the main table top, and the sliding arms are permanently attached to the leaves. To extend you pull the leaves out from under the table top and the top drops down so all is level. DaveO was working on something similar a year or so ago and probably has some detailed plans. I can take some pictures if you would like.

Best of luck,:icon_thum
Ray

 

[BSHuff]

I had an 'Ikea' like table that used a similar design. Had 2 slide out metal tubes on each short dimension end to hold up table extensions

The part that made it work, was that the extension pieces or "guest boards" had 2 lap plates with metal dowels that located the pieces into holes bored under the table. It worked well, other than the only thing that held the boards in were the locator tabs, gravity, and mechanical binding of the boards together. So no real 'positive' latch. And the metal tubes were a bit light, but that was a materials issue on a cheap table and not a design problem.

 

[FlyingRon]

Never built one, but I've got one of that design I bought cheap at a local danish furniture store.

There are plans for the thing on FWW's website:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/PlansAndProjects/PlansAndProjectspdf.aspx?id=2010

 

[Jeff]

Thanks folks, that info is useful.

Ray, could you post a few pics with details if possible? You said the end leaves are permanently attached to the runners and slide out to allow the main table top section to drop so all is level. I don't understand how all of this clears the legs and aprons. :dontknow:

Thanks again to all.

 

[RayH]

Jeff,

I'll get some pictures tomorrow. It's too hard to explain without them:dontknow:

Maybe DaveO will check in and provide the plans he had. it's really a pretty simple concept - just impossible to explain in words alone.

Tune in tomorrow.:gar-Bi

Ray

 

[sushinutnc]

It's called by several names: refectory table, dutch pull-out table, extending end leafs, and pull-leaf table.

My father-in-law made his dining table with this design. They are pretty common in Europe, where he got the inspiration (lived in Germany for a while).

These photos should explain:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/10305

And I'm sure you'll appreciate THIS sketchup::thumbs_up

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=61af3acaf992e2b08e38c23a67b49e1


Pros:
1. Leaves are there... no need to store them somewhere.
2. Pretty straightforward build, relative to what appears to be an ingenious/complicated engineering feat.
3. Nice wow factor for guests who've never seen something like it.
4. Extending the table can be a 1-person job.

Cons:
1. Watch those fingers!!!! Yikes. Every time I pull them out, I'm afraid someone's fingers are going to get caught.
2. The main table "falls" into position once the leaf is pulled out. Be careful if you've already got stuff sitting on the table. It can sometimes slam down, which can be unsettling to quests. (Possibly counteracting the "wow" factor completely!) LOL
3. The length of extension is fixed. I like the flexibility of choosing 1, 2, or 3 drop leaves.... but then an extension table is ultimately limited by the slider length. Still for the end-leaf table, you can choose one or both to pull out.

 

[RayH]

Thanks folks, that info is useful.

Ray, could you post a few pics with details if possible? You said the end leaves are permanently attached to the runners and slide out to allow the main table top section to drop so all is level. I don't understand how all of this clears the legs and aprons. :dontknow:

Thanks again to all.

Jeff,

Mike's "lumberjocks" photographer is better than I am so I will not upload additional pictures unless you wish. It is not apparent, but the leaf arms are tapered, or otherwise shaped, so that the leaves rise as they are pulled out, thus the table top winds up in the original position. That lets you have the choice of 0, 1, or 2 leaves in use as Mike noted. If you are going to be in the Raleigh area and would like to take a look at the details, give me a yell and drop by.

Ray

 

[sushinutnc]

It is not apparent, but the leaf arms are tapered, or otherwise shaped, so that the leaves rise as they are pulled out, thus the table top winds up in the original position.

Ray-- I meant to ask you about this. Once the leaf is pulled out, does the main table fall to match the level of the leaf? My father-in-law's does this, and and I was just at Tir Na Nog (Raleigh restaurant) a couple weeks ago and noted that their tables do this, too. I always thought it would be better to able to bring the leaf up to the height of the main table, but that would require more engineering just a simple taper.

 

[Mt. Gomer]

Plansnow has a dining table plan that's loosely based on this design...

http://plansnow.com/dntable.html

 

[CDPeters]

We have one of these in our kitchen that came from LOMLs family. It looks alot like Jeff's sketchup. In our version, the end leaves are mounted on runners that slide back through a slot in the end skirt. The slot has a metal plate over the top and the runners have a metal plate extending back over a notch in the runner. To extend, you pull the leaf out a little too far, lift up and then slide back so the plate on the runner goes over the plate on the skirt. The main top of the table is fixed and has trim under the edge on both sides so that when the leaves are "stowed", there is a uniform side profile.

Kind of hard to explain, I will try to take some pictures when I get home tonight and post them for you. It is really pretty simple and should be fairly easy to build.

Chris

 

[BSHuff]

There seems to be 2 different designs being discussed here. One is the sliding self storing leaf/refractory/etc table, which I see as completely different from what Jeff started asking about. The 'guest board' table has loose leaves that can extend on a existing table, that are not pull out/self storing. The guest board table has hooks/dowels under the table that position the table and pull out supports kind of like what would be on a drop front desk/secretary to support the load.

 

[sushinutnc]

<...>To extend, you pull the leaf out a little too far, lift up and then slide back so the plate on the runner goes over the plate on the skirt. The main top of the table is fixed<...>

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

 

[RayH]

Ray-- I meant to ask you about this. Once the leaf is pulled out, does the main table fall to match the level of the leaf? My father-in-law's does this, and and I was just at Tir Na Nog (Raleigh restaurant) a couple weeks ago and noted that their tables do this, too. I always thought it would be better to able to bring the leaf up to the height of the main table, but that would require more engineering just a simple taper.

Easier to show you then to describe, but I'll try.The leaf arms rest on the notch cut in the table's end apron. The height of the arm is exactly the depth of the notch in the apron. However, the arm is tilted downward towards the center of the table so it rests under the center support. The ends of the arms are tapered so the leaf remains level with the table/floor, not parallel to the arms. When retracted the leaf sits on the table apron and the top sits on the leaf.

Here it is with the leaf retracted (without the top)


Notice that the leaf is sitting on the apron in the retracted position.

Here it is with the leaf extended.


Notice that now the leaf is above the apron. As the leaf is extending it raises the table top above its normal position so that when the leaf is fully extended the top "drops" back to its original height, now resting on the wider portion of the support arms instead of the retracted leaf.

Clear as mud, huh. :icon_scra

I'll make you the same offer, if you are in the Crabtree mall area give a PM and we will set something up.

Ray

 

[sushinutnc]

There seems to be 2 different designs being discussed here. One is the sliding self storing leaf/refractory/etc table, which I see as completely different from what Jeff started asking about. The 'guest board' table has loose leaves that can extend on a existing table, that are not pull out/self storing. The guest board table has hooks/dowels under the table that position the table and pull out supports kind of like what would be on a drop front desk/secretary to support the load.

hmmm... I don't think so. The site he included shows what they call their "company boards" in this configuration:
http://www.hawleysfinewoodworking.com/page0118.htm

I've re-read your IKEA post, too... and I'm not sure how that one works.

Jeff??

EDIT: My bad! Apologies to you, Brian!

 

[sushinutnc]

As the leaf is extending it raises the table top above its normal position so that when the leaf is fully extended the top "drops" back to its original height, now resting on the wider portion of the support arms instead of the retracted leaf.

Exactly! Yes. That's how my father-in-law's works. For some reason, I thought you were saying the main top was at a fixed height and the leaves come up to meet it.

 

[Jeff]

OMG ya'll have my head spinning now, but what an informative discussion!

It does seem like we're talking about 2 different designs which have the same endpoint. My Sketch Up design concept has the "guest boards" as removable pieces to be stored wherever (like regular extension table leaves). That's the way I envisioned it. The sliding arms don't attach to anything; they're just 2" x 2" hardwood with a dowel on each end so that they can't be pushed in or pulled out too far. Their support when opened is the bottom of the table top which should prevent sagging. :dontknow: You could slide them out on one end or both ends and add the "guest board". YTBD, how to attach those temporarily when in use?

Version 2: The Dutch table (Tage Frid, see thread post #3 above). This is neat IMHO. All storage is on-board! The tapered sliders (skis) are a bit daunting, but doable once understood.

Thanks to all for participating in the discussion. I now have 2 design options to consider. ccasion1

 

[sushinutnc]

Aha! OK. I was thinking your sketchup was just an exploded view. How about a THIRD design option?

As I was reading Brian's description, I was thinking of the drop-leaf/secretary style he mentioned, but they use a hinge along the edge between the breadboard end of the table and the "guest board." The board hinges up and you support it by pulling out the two slides. The PROBLEM is the legs. These tables are center-pedestal or trestle tables. THAT would work beautifully. You simply hinge the guest boards under the table top, securing the free end to a lock/hook/whatever.

If you were to make this style with 4 legs, the hinged guest boards would not be able to fold back under because of the legs, and they'd get in the way of someone trying to sit at the end. I've seen small parlor tables (pedestal) done this way.

 

[Jeff]

My curiosity continues with 2 designs to consider. Here's a revision that, perhaps, is a better depiction of what I'm considering. :icon_scra

It seems too simple in concept, but I'm tempted to build a partial prototype of just the aprons, sliders, and guest boards just to try it. Gonna put my 120 lb dog on it to see how it holds up!

Thanks again to all of you for your input. Critique, suggestions, and comments are always welcomed.

 

[RayH]

Jeff,

It's a neat design. I know it is just a sketch, but if the sliders rest on the table apron, consider making them longer under the table top. If I remember physics from school (that's been so long ago the laws of physics may well have changed:icon_scra) the shorter the under-table portion is the more lifting force it applies to the table top.

Just a thought.
Ray