Spokeshave frustration

[tvrgeek]

OK, knowing nothing and never have seen one, I picked up, for good money mind you, what was supposed to be a Stanley 151. It was a crap clone. So I bought the Taylor pair. Usual tremendous work to get the iron backs flat, but the iron is at least good steel. Not getting anywhere with them. Jim gave me some help today so I see how they should work. Just not working to my expectations.

Huge mouth. So I cut a shim from a sawblade and that helped a lot. Still over sensitive to chatter. Different wood, skew depth, pull, push whatever. Looking deeper, the blade was basically unsupported as the casting was milled so poorly. Just spent 2 hours with blueing ( sharpie) and a scraper and it is getting better. I have a few points of contact near the mouth. It cuts better but not there yet. At least I know I am on the correct problem. It could take days to get good seating of the iron right behind the throat. As thick as it is, you might not think it important, but it seems to be. Cap is honed flat.

Lie Neilson is bronze and might as well be gold plated for the price. Veritas is probably a good tool, but gad, $144 for a spokeshave? That's five times the price. Woodcraft has one from Pinnacle that is just as expensive. I see Amazon has a Record 151 clone for a half decent price. Does anyone know about the quality of the machining? Or is Record like today's Stanley? How good were the original Stanley's? The Kunz are priced like the Taylors and a dozen generic clones. Probably all identical save the paint color.

These are SIMPLE tools. The castings on the $12 cheapos are good enough if someone would just mill the darn seat decently. Looks like most come out of the same factory, but mill work may differ.

 

[pop-pop]

Scott, try this from FWW #158 rather than filing and shimming, an epoxy bed.

Soup Up Your Spokeshave - FineWoodworking

A spokeshave is a very nimble plane, with a short sole that can follow convex and concave surfaces. Any time you have a part that you can’t plane evenly because of its shape, a spokeshave will help. Brian Boggs has a dozen and in this article, he shares how to select, maintain, and upgrade them...

www.finewoodworking.com

 

[jlimey]

OK, knowing nothing and never have seen one, I picked up, for good money mind you, what was supposed to be a Stanley 151. It was a crap clone. So I bought the Taylor pair. Usual tremendous work to get the iron backs flat, but the iron is at least good steel. Not getting anywhere with them. Jim gave me some help today so I see how they should work. Just not working to

Or is Record like today's Stanley? How good were the original Stanley's?

I haven't used all those mentioned, but a good cross-seection of the mid to expensive ones. if someone would like to dive into the spokeshave pool but is not sure if they need one or will use it a lot, I would suggest getting one well enough made that you don't have to alter the tool (unless you enjoy that) to get it to work properly and is not too pricey. I think that vintage Stanley #53 or 54 spokeshaves fit that description. They have an adjustable mouth which is rare. They are from the era when stanley made tools that had to work as craftsmen relied on them.

 

[tvrgeek]

Found some videos similar to the one Pop Pop mentioned. Picture from FWW shows the lack of machining which is one big problem. Seems my issues are SOP. For a flat sole, either the shim or gluing in a bit seems like a solution, IF I can get the mounting point flat. For that much work, seems like a 53/54 would be more worth the effort. Another video show's how much more critical the mouth is on a curved sole, so an adjustable may be the only way to go. Hear the coffee gurgling, so off the lapping fun and games.

Availability of good blades is an issue. Hoch has 151 blades and a "standard" that may fit a 53. Old blades are "iffy". Some great, some not.

 

[Mike Davis]

I use 151s a lot. Never spent more than 15 minutes setting one up except when I bought a Hock blade. The Hock blade it twice as thick and I had to open the mouth almost 1/8 inch.
If you want some coaching or just a second opinion let me know.

 

[tvrgeek]

I just finished making the mouth strait as it was off by over 1/32 of an inch. I was about to go get some JB Weld ( can't believe I ran out) to add a shim in the throat, but I think just buying a Hock iron is a smarter direction. Do need to check as the Taylor blades are thicker than the originals.

 

[tvrgeek]

Hock is .093. My Taylor are .082 . I bet the originals thinner yet. Mouth of the spokeshave is 1/4 inch, or at least is now as one end was way narrower. So, I bet a Hock would be close enough for most work and the thin shim I made be an adjustment for very fine gap. Thicker should have less chatter. I scraped enough I get a reasonable amount of blade contact near the mouth.

For $32 bucks, I would at least know what I am working with as I have their irons in most of my planes. When I need a curved sole, I'll go down that rabbit hole then just keeping an eye out for a 54.

Mike, cabinets and motor are sitting here for whenever you get this way.

 

[tvrgeek]

Darn retailers. Ordered a blade form Tools for Working Wood and wouldn't you know it, they got me for that fancy not really needed Acu-bur burnisher rod.

 

[JohnnyR]

I bought the Kunz rounded spokeshave for a project and spent hours tying to get it to work but was unsuccessful. Borrowed a Lie Neilson and it cut like butter. Don't know if the Veritas is as good but you get what you pay for, in dollars or labor.

 

[Mike Davis]

Mike, cabinets and motor are sitting here for whenever you get this way.

The Wife and I may get out riding around that area soon. She wants to move closer to the grandson.
We would have to downsize severely to afford it. But I'm open to new adventures.
I'd also like to visit Bull City Workshop soon.

 

[tvrgeek]

You don't always get what you pay for, but if you don't pay, you won't get it.
It would not cost a lot to mill the blade seating surface. So maybe a $35 tool instead of $25 and it would work. A couple more bucks and the mouth could have been milled. It is a matter of just selling crap. I think I won't buy any more Taylor branded tools. Just keep using them for supplies and their great deals on PEC seconds.

Sure, the LN for $170 had better be up to their standards!

 

[tvrgeek]

Testing concluded. Made a thicker shim so just a about 3 thou clearence. Iron flat both sides, mouth now even, seating pretty good. It works. Very well actually. Can't wait for the Hock iron.

So, I will set up the flat one to use the Hock for rough work, or a thin shim for fine work. I'll set the curved sole with a closed in mouth for fine shavings as that is the only way I can get it to work.

 

[Scott H]

I bought the Kunz rounded spokeshave for a project and spent hours tying to get it to work but was unsuccessful. Borrowed a Lie Neilson and it cut like butter. Don't know if the Veritas is as good but you get what you pay for, in dollars or labor.

Same experience with the Kunz rounded one (rounded front-to-back.) I think the mouth is much too big. Been meaning to shim mine and see if it helps.

The Kunz flat bottom and new make Stanley 151 worked alright for me after flattening the sole but I would not be surprised if the quality regularly control lets through ones that have an uneven bed that is very prone to chatter.

 

[RichardH]

The old english guy that taught me how to "properly" use a spokeshave swore by the Record A151 spokeshave for two reasons. One it has two adjustable knobs that lets you control depth and centering of the iron camber and two it is shaped to fit your thumbs close to the iron. He described using a spokeshave like having tea with the queen. Your pinky fingers are held out to both sides and your control it with your thumbs so you need someplace to push against. I have never worried about a super closed mouth on a spokeshave since for concave work your riding on the outside two edges of the spokeshave and the iron is cutting a arc below the mouth and for convex the iron is retracted below the surface and the piece is riding over the two edges of the mouth opening.

 

[awldune]

I have the Kunz flat bottom and it works fine now but needed quite a bit of fettling. The bevel on the iron was incredibly rough and needed a good bit of lapping to get it smooth.

I also have the Kunz curved bottom and never could make it work. Maybe closing up the mouth is the way to go?

 

[tvrgeek]

I'll test closing the mouth on the curved sole when I get the good Hock blade. It sure made a difference on the flat sole. I am sure practice matters most, but hard to practice when the tool is unpredictable.

 

[Daniel Bradford]

Thanks for the deep dive. I recently bought a Stanley 151 and cam close to ejecting it through my widow. Assuming operatore error I disassembled it, flattened back. Sharpened edge. Still operator error. I will carefully review the comments in the thread and see if there is a remedy before ejection.

 

[tvrgeek]

If you stop by, maybe we can figure out the problem. I sure found problems with my Taytools to fix!

 

[tvrgeek]

HOCK blade came today. As usual, they are FLAT. Went right to my ultra extra diamond stone. Minutes instead of hours to get the blade ready. TAYLOR, pay attention!
In the flat bottom, easier and less chatter. I think I would still reduce the throat by a little.
On the curved sole, chatters to beat all get-out, but does sort of cut. So I can continue to blame the tool. I will work on filing the seating surface more.

For the Taylor spoke shaves, I had to enlarge the adjustment slots. I also polished them a little so the adjustment is smoother. I do not know about how thick the nut flange is in a Stanley. The slots not being polished is a problem on all of the blades. Rough stamping.

Anyway, progress. I am still tempted to order a Melbourne flat sole. Just because. So far I have done inside curves with my drawknife, rasp and card scraper, so I am not hurting with the curved sole at this time.

 

[Cuthriell]

You might be approaching the cost of a LN Boggs shave.