Setting up dust collection, differently.....

[SabertoothBunny]

I recently acquired a Delta 50-850 single stage dust collector. The unit is basically new, never been setup or used, but has some cosmetic wear from sitting in garage storage for many moons but for $100 I snatched it up. The problem is shop space is limited. So help me with some questions. This space is largely for hobby and I am doing small projects or one larger one at a time due to space constraints so it won't be dust everywhere all the time and the garage door is often open to help increase space by rolling tools outside for workable space.

1. My thought was to mount it on the wall, on studs, due to space constraints and not use the bags it comes with. Run an line for dust/debris to push down to a collection bin directly. Will this be an issue without a dust bag? Would finding a way to incorporate a cyclone system like a dust deputy be beneficial enough to sacrifice the space for it? My intent to also get a ceiling mounted air filtration unit as well.

2. Ducting in the 2/3 of a single car garage that I am limited too. My thought is to run the bulk as 4" PVC at ceiling level and then reduce down to the appropriate sized flex hose at tools that need it and 4" flex hose for just my table saw since that is the only full sized dust port I have. My understanding is gates near where the flex connection will go, is that accurate? Are plastic gates sufficient or will it require metal? The dust collector is 1.5HP.

3. Static mitigation. While I may not need this, I want to have it since flex will be incorporated and static can still be a potential issue. What is the "best" way to attach the static line to these tubes? Would metal flex clamps along the length with the ground work to avoid drilling into the tube? Is connecting a ground to the flexible metal clamp at the joints switching to flex sufficient? What would the actual ground line be connected too? Would that be the metal base of the dust collector since that is grounded through its power cable?

I understand some of this has been answered and there are chats about it. Mine does have a slight variation since I don't want to setup the large dust collection in the traditional fashion. Thank you for humoring me.

 

[tvrgeek]

Is this unit equiped with a HEPA filter? If not, I suggest mounting it OUTSIDE. Filter bags pass the fine dust that is what kills you. Actually kills you. They are CHIP collector-dust atomizers!

Yea, you can dump into a sealed bin. If you put on a cyclone, the bin does not need to be very large as a cyclone will drop out 95% or more. The bin under the cyclone is what needs to be bigger.
Static is only an inconvenience. Flex hose has a steel core so just expose it a little and fold it back under where the clamp will be. Then a short pigtail/aligator clip or something to earth ground. Only need it on one end. For PVC, I have just run a strip of duct tape, the real duct foil tape, along the line and tied it to ground. On my CV cyclone, I just wrapped a bit of bare wire around it tied to ground.

Gates can be anywhere. Lots of total BS by well meaning folks who do not understand fluid dynamics. Mine are at the machines so they are within reach. Leaks and smooth corners are more important. The "gate" I use on the flex host to my router fence is the top of a spray paint can. Fits perfectlly. A lot of gates, the plastic ones, build up dust inside and won't fully open or close. Look for gates the slide goes clear through or DIY like Katz Moses design.

 

[Tarhead]

That unit is intended for one machine. Even then, it does not have enough power to do more than collect large particles. I would not expect it to be adequate to allow you to safely make dust without PPE and would be concerned about the ultrafine dust getting into your house if connected to your shop. My suggestion is to make and mount a Thein accumulator or a dust deputy with bin and the blower to a wall and exhaust it outside with plenty of fresh air cross breeze through the space. Use one 4" flex tubing long enough to be shared between your machines. Wear a mask until a dust monitor says it's safe to remove it.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

Is this unit equiped with a HEPA filter? If not, I suggest mounting it OUTSIDE. Filter bags pass the fine dust that is what kills you. Actually kills you. They are CHIP collector-dust atomizers!

Yea, you can dump into a sealed bin. If you put on a cyclone, the bin does not need to be very large as a cyclone will drop out 95% or more. The bin under the cyclone is what needs to be bigger.
Static is only an inconvenience. Flex hose has a steel core so just expose it a little and fold it back under where the clamp will be. Then a short pigtail/aligator clip or something to earth ground. Only need it on one end. For PVC, I have just run a strip of duct tape, the real duct foil tape, along the line and tied it to ground. On my CV cyclone, I just wrapped a bit of bare wire around it tied to ground.

Gates can be anywhere. Lots of total BS by well meaning folks who do not understand fluid dynamics. Mine are at the machines so they are within reach. Leaks and smooth corners are more important. The "gate" I use on the flex host to my router fence is the top of a spray paint can. Fits perfectlly. A lot of gates, the plastic ones, build up dust inside and won't fully open or close. Look for gates the slide goes clear through or DIY like Katz Moses design.

4" vs 6" ducting, whether it be PVC or metal. Why have it bigger when it must be reduced to reach the DC must less tools?

 

[tvrgeek]

It matters as far as resistive drop and maintaining minimum velocity. Both are important and inversely related. May I suggest going to ClearView and Oneida WEBs and read all the technical information you can find. They have calculators to figgure drop per foot of pipe, per elbow etc. Also realize your Delta probably actually pulls only about 3/2 the spec. Figure about 800 CFM with no ductwork.

I agree with Mark, you may be better served with just a flex hose moved around. Do understand, dust collectors are high volume, low lift. Tools with small ports usually want high lift, like that from a shop vac. As an example, I measured the CFM at the pickup port on my Kaypex. 5 HP Clear View Dust collector vs a $35 Ridgid shop vac. I had 20% greater flow with the vac. Planer, jointer and my TS need the high flow from the DC. That unit with just a filter bag is totally unsuitable to collect dust. You would be better just to run through a cyclone for 95% and then run the exhaust outside.

We can help more if you list what tools you want to use it for.

 

[Bas]

I used to have a small basement shop with the Harbor Freight "2HP" dust collector. It's probably similar in specs to what you have. I used 4" PVC for the duct work and added a Wynn filter for better airflow and filtration. You can't get sufficient air flow with 4" duct work to get the really fine stuff, but it's better than nothing. It'll get some of the dust, and it gets most of the chips. You have to be careful and not go overboard on the length of the run, turns, etc. I used a trash can separator with the setup and that degraded performance too much. My suggestion is to focus on air flow and forego the cyclone/ separator. You have to empty the bag more often, but if you're a hobbyist that is not going to be a daily (or even weekly) chore.

For a small shop, it either needs to be small enough that a single 10' hose reaches everything, or you're actually better off using duct work. In a small shop you can't afford the space needed to roll around a mobile unit, and you don't want a 20' flex hose that kills your airflow.

For my new shop I went with 6" PVC and a large, 3HP machine with a large impeller that could move enough air to get the finer dust. It still wasn't perfect, even with the Shark Guard on my table saw and shroud for the miter saw. No matter the setup, wearing a mask/ respirator is advisable, and an air filtration unit can be added to scrub the air for any particles that escaped.

A small single-stage 1.5HP machine, some duct work, a few blast gates etc. can typically be done for <$500. A larger machine, 6" duct work, better dust hoods etc. will cost you ~$5,000. Not kidding. Of course, the cheapest option is a dust pan and broom, for $5. But that gets old real quick. I think your idea of using 4" duct work and a few blast gates will work fine, it's just not very good in terms of protecting you from harmful dust exposure. But just because you can't collect everything doesn't mean you should collect nothing. Keep the chips off the floor, wear a mask, and enjoy.

 

[tvrgeek]

I used to have a small basement shop with the Harbor Freight "2HP" dust collector. It's probably similar in specs to what you have. I used 4" PVC for the duct work and added a Wynn filter for better airflow and filtration. You can't get sufficient air flow with 4" duct work to get the really fine stuff, but it's better than nothing. It'll get some of the dust, and it gets most of the chips. You have to be careful and not go overboard on the length of the run, turns, etc. I used a trash can separator with the setup and that degraded performance too much. My suggestion is to focus on air flow and forego the cyclone/ separator. You have to empty the bag more often, but if you're a hobbyist that is not going to be a daily (or even weekly) chore.

For a small shop, it either needs to be small enough that a single 10' hose reaches everything, or you're actually better off using duct work. In a small shop you can't afford the space needed to roll around a mobile unit, and you don't want a 20' flex hose that kills your airflow.

For my new shop I went with 6" PVC and a large, 3HP machine with a large impeller that could move enough air to get the finer dust. It still wasn't perfect, even with the Shark Guard on my table saw and shroud for the miter saw. No matter the setup, wearing a mask/ respirator is advisable, and an air filtration unit can be added to scrub the air for any particles that escaped.

A small single-stage 1.5HP machine, some duct work, a few blast gates etc. can typically be done for <$500. A larger machine, 6" duct work, better dust hoods etc. will cost you ~$5,000. Not kidding. Of course, the cheapest option is a dust pan and broom, for $5. But that gets old real quick. I think your idea of using 4" duct work and a few blast gates will work fine, it's just not very good in terms of protecting you from harmful dust exposure. But just because you can't collect everything doesn't mean you should collect nothing. Keep the chips off the floor, wear a mask, and enjoy.

Big stuff you can sweep up. It is the fine stuff that causes lung disease. Between the two, focus on the fines.

No cyclone means you will clog that Wynn HEPA filter in the first cut. Even with flappers like I had in my Jet, just one short session on the table saw and it clogged so bad it blew the bag off. ( MDF project) Cyclones capture the fine stuff better than most think and in use, have less drop than just a few minutes running without one. A dust deputy 4/5 is cheap. Thein filters are not as effective.

A simple aerometer is a helpful tool. Most will be very surprised how little flow they are actually getting. Do the calculations and measurement.

Lots of simple DIY ambient air cleaners. I get my MERV 15 and 18 filters online pretty cheap. I use a salvaged furnace fan.

Again, a lot of tools a low lift high volume collector is not the correct tool. A vac/cyclone/HEPA is a better choice.

FWIW, I wear glasses and in a workshop, everyone should wear safety glasses so simple dust N95 or N100 masks are a no-go as they leak and steam up your glasses. Not being able to see is a pretty big safety issue. My half-face industrial respirators work better but there is a limit how long one I stand one. A good one costs as much as a Dust Deputy!

If you are working in a garage with the door open, get a large exhaust fan to just blow the air out.

Woodworking is not cheap. Dust collection is one of those places people WASTE a lot of money trying to be cheap just to spend more to do it correctly again. That Delta was cheap for a reason. Get off the forum and do real research from the real companies with real engineers. I know about re-doing it. Shop vac to Jet to CV to now a hybrid with the big dust collector and multiple vac/cyclones with HEPA filters. Not finished.

Hint: The Makita dust collector tests as good as the Festool and Fein for half the price.

PS: Don't feel sorry Bas, a 5 HP won't get all the dust either. It is a failure of the tool design. Maybe if we worked in industrial down-draft spray booths with 20 HP of fans.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

Big stuff you can sweep up. It is the fine stuff that causes lung disease. Between the two, focus on the fines.

No cyclone means you will clog that Wynn HEPA filter in the first cut. Even with flappers like I had in my Jet, just one short session on the table saw and it clogged so bad it blew the bag off. ( MDF project) Cyclones capture the fine stuff better than most think and in use, have less drop than just a few minutes running without one. A dust deputy 4/5 is cheap. Thein filters are not as effective.

A simple aerometer is a helpful tool. Most will be very surprised how little flow they are actually getting. Do the calculations and measurement.

Lots of simple DIY ambient air cleaners. I get my MERV 15 and 18 filters online pretty cheap. I use a salvaged furnace fan.

Again, a lot of tools a low lift high volume collector is not the correct tool. A vac/cyclone/HEPA is a better choice.

FWIW, I wear glasses and in a workshop, everyone should wear safety glasses so simple dust N95 or N100 masks are a no-go as they leak and steam up your glasses. Not being able to see is a pretty big safety issue. My half-face industrial respirators work better but there is a limit how long one I stand one. A good one costs as much as a Dust Deputy!

If you are working in a garage with the door open, get a large exhaust fan to just blow the air out.

Woodworking is not cheap. Dust collection is one of those places people WASTE a lot of money trying to be cheap just to spend more to do it correctly again. That Delta was cheap for a reason. Get off the forum and do real research from the real companies with real engineers. I know about re-doing it. Shop vac to Jet to CV to now a hybrid with the big dust collector and multiple vac/cyclones with HEPA filters. Not finished.

Hint: The Makita dust collector tests as good as the Festool and Fein for half the price.

PS: Don't feel sorry Bas, a 5 HP won't get all the dust either. It is a failure of the tool design. Maybe if we worked in industrial down-draft spray booths with 20 HP of fans.

Wow, so now I am being cheap because I finally got a system when I literally had NOTHING before it. Screw the fact that I am trying to do SOMETHING to take care of dust. Maybe I will just get off this forum and go find one that will actually try to help without insulting those seeking help. Not all of us have the endless disposable income to drop the $5,000+ you deem is the only way to go for what you deem to be the best dust collection.

 

[Charlie]

Wow, so now I am being cheap because I finally got a system when I literally had NOTHING before it. Screw the fact that I am trying to do SOMETHING to take care of dust. Maybe I will just get off this forum and go find one that will actually try to help without insulting those seeking help. Not all of us have the endless disposable income to drop the $5,000+ you deem is the only way to go for what you deem to be the best dust collection.

Forget all of the "experts" and calculations. Do whatever works for you.
I have installed dust collection systems all over the world.
The largest was 100HP and some included 25'Hx8'D cyclones.
But my shop collection consists of several 2HP blowers, 4"PVC pipe, no filters or cyclones.
I didn't bother doing any air flow calcs, elbow design, etc. etc.
All blowers and ducting are under the shop floor and everything is exhausted outside. There are 7 systems all with 4" pipes and between 50' and 66' long. When I start my TS it's blower comes on. I have never had a plug up in 30+ years.
I do not handle anything. Matter of fact I do not collect dust and shavings, I just "transport" it all outside.
I will put my system up against any other system.
I'm certainly not saying my system is the best but it works for me and that is all that matters.

 

[Ricksmi]

WOW Sabertooth I don't think your being cheap at all just some folks have very strong opinions. With that said I don't disagree with some comments at all and he does put out some good facts.
Doing some research as mentioned is valuable and eliminates all the "opinions" people have right or wrong. In my home workshop after doing hours of research on what works, best flow rates etc. etc. I went with a Rockler system at 800CFM and attach directly to the tool and my Festool with HEPA for the small tools.
My workshop is 35 x 40 and the Rockler being on wheels I move where I need it and good to go no need to spend all kind of dollars on plumbing IMO. I have never have an issue with N95 leak and steam up and prefer the RZ mask whenever im sanding and I wear glasses 24/7.
But the bottom line is this, anything you do to control dust is better than nothing and a little common sense goes a long way.

 

[Phil S]

I am shifting to a tighter shop and I am installing a very similar collector To save space I mounted the unit above the garage door and instead of the directly connected bag I have added a funnel to send the debris to a 8" pipe that will connect to a bag outside It should work fine

 

[Tarhead]

Wow, so now I am being cheap because I finally got a system when I literally had NOTHING before it. Screw the fact that I am trying to do SOMETHING to take care of dust. Maybe I will just get off this forum and go find one that will actually try to help without insulting those seeking help. Not all of us have the endless disposable income to drop the $5,000+ you deem is the only way to go for what you deem to be the best dust collection.

If I talked down to you I apologize. I was a Respiratory Therapist for 40 years and saw thousands of people die unnecessarily miserable deaths. Furniture workers were part of that group even with OSHA rules. Home woodworkers are exposed to hundreds of times the amount of ultrafine dust particles as factory workers. Wood dust is dangerous and we want you and everyone else to be safe. Do what you can but please don't think adding a dust collector is a golden ticket to working without protecting your airways. You still need to wear a mask until the dust you can't see (the size of one smoke particle) is dealt with. I gave you a very low-cost and simple way to do this in my comment.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

If I talked down to you I apologize. I was a Respiratory Therapist for 40 years and saw thousands of people die unnecessarily miserable deaths. Furniture workers were part of that group even with OSHA rules. Home woodworkers are exposed to hundreds of times the amount of ultrafine dust particles as factory workers. Wood dust is dangerous and we want you and everyone else to be safe. Do what you can but please don't think adding a dust collector is a golden ticket to working without protecting your airways. You still need to wear a mask until the dust you can't see (the size of one smoke particle) is dealt with. I gave you a very low-cost and simple way to do this in my comment.

Your points about respiratory issues make complete sense, OSHA is a more current point compared to 40+ years ago when it was more guidelines than rules. I am certainly working to alleviate that as much as I possible can as I do not want to reduce my lifespan or suffer from serious respiratory issues as I age, hence my efforts in getting some kind of system aside from just masks. I just have to figure out how to make these suggestions work.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

I am shifting to a tighter shop and I am installing a very similar collector To save space I mounted the unit above the garage door and instead of the directly connected bag I have added a funnel to send the debris to a 8" pipe that will connect to a bag outside It should work fine

Your setup is much more like the style I am going for. I just don't have the HEPA filter on for mine like the Jet does, the old Delta came with those old and crappy fabric dust bags. I am hoping to find a way to vent it outside of my garage and have a cyclone before that to limit the exhaust to just finer dust particles. There is nowhere on the side of my house for this stuff to go except an extended driveway. If it is just finer dust blowing out combined with the amount of work I do that may work as the dust should blow away with the breezes. Thank you for the visual, that is really close to what I have been envisioning.