Sawstop or Powermatic? And what all about riving knives

[MrAudio815]

Who's better than who? :dontknow:

I'm interested in your Knowledge & expertise. I would like to buy one or the other, but can't decide who's better? And the riving knife on the Saw stop how it follows the blade? Good thing or bad?

What's in you garage?

Matthew & Rachel
Custom Home Audio:icon_thum

 

[DaveO]

Both are excellent saws. The biggest question you have to ask yourself is, if the safety feature of the Sawstop worth the additional cost. If you come to the Klingspor thingy this Saturday they just announced that they will be doing several Sawstop demos. I guess hot dogs will be on the lunch menu. :lol::lol:
The riving knife on the Sawstop follows the blade as it raises, lowers and tilts. It provides a splitter no matter what the cut may be. They are standard equipment on European saws. Many manufactures of saws for the US market are getting on the bandwagon and just starting to include true riving knives in their newer model saws.
I don't think that you will be disappointed with either the Sawstop or the PM66 as they are some of the top rated cabinet saws available today.
Dave (fetchin' the popcorn)

 

[Jim Murphy]

Powermatic has two cabinet saws, as well as a contractor style (PM64A). The PM66 is made in Tennessee, PM2000 made overseas. Members here have PM66s, PM2000s and SawStops and every other brand imaginable, from Felder on down.

I have a PM66 with an aftermarket Bies splitter that is a snap to remove/replace when dado or kerf grooves are needed. The design and implementation of the factory splitter on a PM66 is untenable. If you're looking at the mustard colored stuff, the PM2000 has a factory riving knife.

This is some serious hardware for just starting out, and although a table saw is the heart of the shop, I'd hate to see you drop three large on a saw and then purchase a 4" benchtop jointer because you had to scrimp. The ... ah... quality of ALL the gear needs to coordinate, in a fashion. Doesn't matter how straight the saw cuts if the jointer didn't make the board flat and square.

DaveO, have that cute little girl elf with the red hair pass the popcorn, please.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Both are winners for sure and neither would disappoint you. Neither are that expensive, but neither are low-budget either.

Previously I had a Jet 10XL cabinet saw and it was excellent -- not one complaint in the usage category, however a couple in the safety and convenience categories. It would do everything you ever needed -- however, it didn't offer the safety features the others two do -- especially the riving knife and quick-change splitter. Then the SawStop takes it a step further offering the patented blade brake.

I own the SawStop now. It's 5HP compared to the previous 3HP Jet and has all the features you'd expect from a saw in this category -- quick change riving knife/splitter, quality fence, excellent dust/chip collection and very heavy construction. It comes highly recommended from me, however I wouldn't turn down the PM either (though dollar-for-dollar I'd put the extra couple bucks into the safety brake on the SawStop because the one trip I have had to the emergency room for a couple stitches when I put a hand chisel in my thumb cost more than that difference)

 

[ashley_phil]

The riving knife on the Sawstop follows the blade as it raises, lowers and tilts. It provides a splitter no matter what the cut may be. They are standard equipment on European saws. Many manufactures of saws for the US market are getting on the bandwagon and just starting to include true riving knives in their newer model saws.

they aren't just jumping on the bandwagon. riving knives are a great safety feature and must be included on all new saws sold by '09 i believe.

for the $ i'd go with a saw stop if you can. i cut my thumb a few years ago and it cost me $ 7,500. i could have had (2) saw stops.

 

[Travis Porter]

I was formerly a PM-66 owner, but I have since moved to a sliding table saw. I had installed an aftermarket splitter on the PM-66 and loved it, but I did not like the fact it didn't raise and lower with the blade for blind cuts. Personally, I consider a slider having even more safety features than a Sawstop because the entire table moves not just the board. The sawstop's blade stop feature is a big plus for protection of the flesh, but the sliding table and the better ablility to cut full sheets of plywood were more enticing to me than the sawstop. One other point of Euro saws that I didn't know was that once you hit the off switch the blade has to stop within 10 seconds.

Ultimately, it is a personal decision and you have to do what you feel is best for you.

 

[WoodWrangler]

I was formerly a PM-66 owner, but I have since moved to a sliding table saw. I had installed an aftermarket splitter on the PM-66 and loved it, but I did not like the fact it didn't raise and lower with the blade for blind cuts. Personally, I consider a slider having even more safety features than a Sawstop because the entire table moves not just the board. The sawstop's blade stop feature is a big plus for protection of the flesh, but the sliding table and the better ablility to cut full sheets of plywood were more enticing to me than the sawstop. One other point of Euro saws that I didn't know was that once you hit the off switch the blade has to stop within 10 seconds.

Ultimately, it is a personal decision and you have to do what you feel is best for you.

Now Travis' saw takes you to a different level altogether (price as well as functionality). If you can make that jump ($10K at least?), you'll definately not regret it. The sliding table would be a HUGE benefit (I can only imagine!). I've considering adding one to my saw after-market, but none compare to the ones built into the saw. If you have that budget, there is a guy in Waxhaw I know with a real beauty for about $15k ... just let me know

 

[sediener]

When I upgrade from my 1.5ishHP Grizz hybrid, it will be to a Sawstop. Even though it is more expensive for pretty much the same features as a PM (minus the safety), explaining to the LOML that it will keep my fingers on is a better bet to getting a higher powered saw than just saying (in a Tim Taylor voice) "I need more power".

- Steve

 

[JimmyC]

I have a Jet left tilt cabinet saw, and live it. I wouldn't trade it in for anything because it does everything I need. But, If I was going to buy a new saw now, and I could afford the Sawstop, I would probably buy it.

Either the PM or the Sawstop are great choices.


Jimmy

 

[Travis Porter]

Now Travis' saw takes you to a different level altogether (price as well as functionality). If you can make that jump ($10K at least?), you'll definately not regret it. The sliding table would be a HUGE benefit (I can only imagine!). I've considering adding one to my saw after-market, but none compare to the ones built into the saw. If you have that budget, there is a guy in Waxhaw I know with a real beauty for about $15k ... just let me know

Price is less than that for used. As for aftermarket sliders, the only one I think I would consider is the Jess'em. Seems to be the easiest to get aligned and for fence installation and removal.

 

[JimmyC]

Price is less than that for used.

As long as you're wiiling to fly to St. Louis and drive it back in a U-haul:rotflm:.

Jimmy

 

[Travis Porter]

As long as you're wiiling to fly to St. Louis and drive it back in a U-haul:rotflm:.

Jimmy

I hope you are not coming to the shop crawl. If you are, you are not allowed to talk to my wife. She has said the same things you are saying. All I hear from her is "you need truffles to go with the Felder". The tone is comparable to saying targez instead of target if you get my drift.:embaresse:wink_smil

 

[ashley_phil]

I know a guy that sells used equipment, actually he sells a lot of sliders.

Has one out near the coast PS-280377 It ain't a beauty queen but it's only $ 5,500 and he's got a phase converter hard wired to it.

 

[FredP]

I hope you are not coming to the shop crawl. If you are, you are not allowed to talk to my wife. She has said the same things you are saying. All I hear from her is "you need truffles to go with the Felder". The tone is comparable to saying targez instead of target if you get my drift.:embaresse:wink_smil

gee.... sure wish i could witness er i mean make the crawl!:rotflm:

 

[JimmyC]

I hope you are not coming to the shop crawl. If you are, you are not allowed to talk to my wife. She has said the same things you are saying. All I hear from her is "you need truffles to go with the Felder". The tone is comparable to saying targez instead of target if you get my drift.:embaresse:wink_smil

Travis,
I will be there, and I'm looking forward to your shop, but I will probably drooling too much to talk anyway.:lol:

Jimmy

 

[Douglas Robinson]

I have owned a 5HP PM66. I now own a PM2000. It has a built in riving knife. At Toolferone's suggestion (at the old WC in Raleigh) I bought the low profile riving knife. I use that one 100% of the time. As most table saw injuries are from kick back, and due to the 4K+ price for a Sawstop, I went for the PM2000. Also, my shop is small and I wanted it on casters. The PM's built in retractable casters are nice! The dust collection is terrific too. I have had no issues with the quality of the castings.

If I had the $ and a bigger shop I would have considered the Sawstop. I like the concept and they have executed it well. The saw is heavy and stout. It has to be to support the safety mechanism. Overall fit, finish and design look to be aces.

Doug

 

[DaveO]

and a beer to wash it down with

Ah, the beginnings of a good thread :-D

Dave

 

[MrAudio815]

Jeremy,

Since you own a Saw stop, heres a question for you. Now If I were to buy the Saw stop and not use the stopping feature since I heard you can do that would the saw still be worth it, or should I get a PM66? The thing I like about the saw stop so far is the riving knife that follows the blade, the ease of adjustments, and the strong build quality, not to mention the stopping, if I were to use it. Since thats one of the big difference. Oh does the Saw stop have wheels like the PM2000, and does the PM66 have wheels?

Anyone can anwser of course.

$2700 for a PM66 or $3000+ for a Saw stop? That is the question?

Thanks,

Matthew & Rachel
Custom Home Audio

 

[WoodWrangler]

Jeremy,

Since you own a Saw stop, heres a question for you. Now If I were to buy the Saw stop and not use the stopping feature since I heard you can do that would the saw still be worth it, or should I get a PM66? The thing I like about the saw stop so far is the riving knife that follows the blade, the ease of adjustments, and the strong build quality, not to mention the stopping, if I were to use it. Since thats one of the big difference. Oh does the Saw stop have wheels like the PM2000, and does the PM66 have wheels?

Anyone can anwser of course.

$2700 for a PM66 or $3000+ for a Saw stop? That is the question?

Thanks,

Matthew & Rachel
Custom Home Audio

Without the blade brake it would be a direct comparison with the new model of the PM2000 & would be a tight race ... Unfortunately the SawStop doesn't have built-in casters, but I picked up a set for $80 that will support the 700+lbs. If the PM2000 doesn't have the same style riving knife (though I thought it might), then the SawStop is a no brainer. The riving knife is the single best feature next to the blade brake. One other thing that was a nice suprise, the SawStop comes with a decent carbide 10" blade ... something I surely didn't expect, as most do not.

So, the answer is I don't know. PM has a great reputation and without the blade brake reputation might win-out. But you can't discount the fact that it DOES have the brake and it wouldn't make any sense to run it in the "off" position (it's free to use it, and it saves you thousands if it is ever triggered)

 

[WoodWrangler]

More more note ... if you don't need a full cabinet saw, SawStop is introducing a contractor saw with the same feature.