Rust-Oleum Parks 1-Qt. Gloss Super Glaze Finish and Preservative

[CrealBilly]

Any experience using this product? ---> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Parks-1-Qt-Finish-and-Preservative-241352/202056337 seems the negative comments have a common theme - people did not follow the directions... imagine that I'm looking for a tough guitar finish that wont either kill me or give me cancer and that I can block sand to level off and buff to a ulta high-gloss.

 

[Mark Gottesman]

This would probably look fine for a solid body electric, but not for an acoustic. thick finish would damp soundboad vibrations. On another note, I find those thick finishes very unappealing for anything with a grain. there must be other ways than shooting nitrocellulose or lacquer that will give you an acceptable finish. TruOil and varnish?

 

[Phil S]

Most epoxies do not stand up well to UV, they cloud over and eventually breakdown. They either have to be top coated with a UV blocker like a marine varnish or they must be kept in the case. I think you would do better with an automotive clear coat, great uv protection, quick to apply and will buff to a mirror finish. There are many to choose from, go with a two part system that has some flexibility.

 

[Berta]

That looks like something I used to use in decoritave painting. It was called liquid glass. Made a very poor finish that would peal off after a few years of use.

 

[CrealBilly]

Most epoxies do not stand up well to UV, they cloud over and eventually breakdown. They either have to be top coated with a UV blocker like a marine varnish or they must be kept in the case. I think you would do better with an automotive clear coat, great uv protection, quick to apply and will buff to a mirror finish. There are many to choose from, go with a two part system that has some flexibility.

Can you recommend any further? Maybe point me to a automotive clear coat product? Thanks

 

[CrealBilly]

This would probably look fine for a solid body electric, but not for an acoustic. thick finish would damp soundboad vibrations. On another note, I find those thick finishes very unappealing for anything with a grain. there must be other ways than shooting nitrocellulose or lacquer that will give you an acceptable finish. TruOil and varnish?

Agree... Nitro would be a good choice but is way to soft and takes to freaking long to dry for my liking. I was watching a video I don't remember exactly where maybe on youtube. But one thing stuck in my my mind. It's takes 30 days to build a nitro finished guitar, 2 days of woodworking and 28 days for finishing. Yikes... and that's under ideal conditions mind you. (manufacturer name left out intentionally). If you have ever tried nitro then you can appreciate what I'm saying - it seems like it takes forever to dry to the point when you can put a buffer to the finish...

 

[CrealBilly]

That looks like something I used to use in decoritave painting. It was called liquid glass. Made a very poor finish that would peal off after a few years of use.

Thanks... Looks like it may be on to the next finish then. Hopefully Phil can point me in the right direction...

 

[Hmerkle]

Talk to PPG about a "Wood friendly" two part epoxy.

Not sure if this even exists, but...

I saw a two part epoxy paint applied with HVLP in an industrial environment and it rivaled auto paint finish! It looked like it "flowed" on to the motor he was painting. He took it and put it through an oven - I said "Oh, it is heat activated?" he said, "No, it just speeds up the drying process. I'd have to wait an hour or so for this to ship if I didn't use the oven...

It is only a guess on my part - if they have two part epoxy paint - I would think they would have two-part epoxy clear coat...

Oh, did I mention - it was water based and environmentally friendly - he washed it down the drain!!!!!!!!

 

[CrealBilly]

Talk to PPG about a "Wood friendly" two part epoxy.

Not sure if this even exists, but...

I saw a two part epoxy paint applied with HVLP in an industrial environment and it rivaled auto paint finish! It looked like it "flowed" on to the motor he was painting. He took it and put it through an oven - I said "Oh, it is heat activated?" he said, "No, it just speeds up the drying process. I'd have to wait an hour or so for this to ship if I didn't use the oven...

It is only a guess on my part - if they have two part epoxy paint - I would think they would have two-part epoxy clear coat...

Oh, did I mention - it was water based and environmentally friendly - he washed it down the drain!!!!!!!!

Sounds to good to be true... who is PPG? Basically I'm just about at the point where I give up and just send my raw guitars out to be finished.

 

[Hmerkle]

Jeff,
Try this -
http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/home.aspx

I am also looking for an alternative (The actual product that Russ [the guy I was talking to] was using for painting the motors)

O.K. scratch that!
He said a two part epoxy might not work the best on wood.
I spoke with Rusty and he said try U.S. Paint (2K Urathane - this is a two part Urethane)
He has done a few guitars with this product and said if you call (PPG or US Paint) most will suggest a lacquer, but he thought this was better. he also gave a (southeast) contact: Dave Mercier (678) 850-1972. Not sure if he can help you, but I would guess if he can't at least he can give you contacts for U.S. Paint In Illinois... but Rusty said "Maybe he would send him some samples...

 

[Phil S]

Jeff, Here is a product that should work well for you assuming you have spray capability and your gun can handle clear coat. I shoot cc with a 1.3 needle in a Devilbuss Finishline 4
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-urethane-clear-2-1-quart.html

If you do not have spray equipment, I believe eastwood sells a rattle can product that should work for a small project

 

[CrealBilly]

Thanks guys I really do appreciate this... i do have spray guns my favorite is gravity fed - so no worries there. The only issue i found with automotive finishes are they really shrink up when they dry. No much of a consern really... because you can block sand the hills and valleys out easy enough by alternating at 90 degree patterns as i work up through the grits. I just need a clear that will build thick, dry fast and buff to a mirror like sheen.

My ideal schedule would be to spray 5 or 6 coats all within a hour or so that would dry in 24 hours. Wet block sand starting @ 800 and work up through the grits to 2000, then machine buff with automotive compounds.

Also my fret boards are finished so the finish has to adhere to the the sides of the nickel fretwire or be hard enough to stand up to flatwound bass strings for my fretless models.

Lacquer although extremely easy to work with is just to soft and takes completely to long to dry for my liking.

 

[CrealBilly]

Jeff,
Try this -
http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/home.aspx

I am also looking for an alternative (The actual product that Russ [the guy I was talking to] was using for painting the motors)

O.K. scratch that!
He said a two part epoxy might not work the best on wood.
I spoke with Rusty and he said try U.S. Paint (2K Urathane - this is a two part Urethane)
He has done a few guitars with this product and said if you call (PPG or US Paint) most will suggest a lacquer, but he thought this was better. he also gave a (southeast) contact: Dave Mercier (678) 850-1972. Not sure if he can help you, but I would guess if he can't at least he can give you contacts for U.S. Paint In Illinois... but Rusty said "Maybe he would send him some samples...

I have heard some good things about 2K i have yet to try any but will be soon.

 

[CrealBilly]

Jeff, Here is a product that should work well for you assuming you have spray capability and your gun can handle clear coat. I shoot cc with a 1.3 needle in a Devilbuss Finishline 4
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-urethane-clear-2-1-quart.html

If you do not have spray equipment, I believe eastwood sells a rattle can product that should work for a small project

I just ordered a quart to give it a try... thanks again Phil

 

[Endless Pursuit]

The product you are looking for is a Clear Polyaspartic. This is the newest thing since aliphatic acrylic or polyester Polyurethanes. They cure by a combination of chemical cross linking and reaction with atmospheric moisture.

Water clear, solvent free, pure resin coating with a viscosity akin to unthinned Behlens Shellac.

Not sure how they sand because I sell them for a clear, abrasion-resistant topcoat for industrial concrete floors. when I finally get my shop built, I plan on using some as a topcoat on my floors. Not cheap but since they are 100% solids, a little goes a long way. I never thought about using them for wood until this thread showed up. I will check with our lab folks regarding use as a wood finish.

 

[CrealBilly]

The product you are looking for is a Clear Polyaspartic. This is the newest thing since aliphatic acrylic or polyester Polyurethanes. They cure by a combination of chemical cross linking and reaction with atmospheric moisture.

Water clear, solvent free, pure resin coating with a viscosity akin to unthinned Behlens Shellac.

Not sure how they sand because I sell them for a clear, abrasion-resistant topcoat for industrial concrete floors. when I finally get my shop built, I plan on using some as a topcoat on my floors. Not cheap but since they are 100% solids, a little goes a long way. I never thought about using them for wood until this thread showed up. I will check with our lab folks regarding use as a wood finish.

Sounds very interesting, please let me know what the lab says about use on wood. block sanding and buffing ability thanks again :thumbup:

 

[Endless Pursuit]

Well, this is getting interesting. One of my friends is a lab rat and a fellow woodworker. He's telling me that for the right price (I have a live edge walnut slab he wants), he'd be happy to share with me the secrets he's discovered to properly employ this coating as a wood finish. He claims to have applied 3 coats to some Red Oak and it has been submerged for 3 years with no detectable penetration of the finish. He's used it for tables, a boot box, boat rails and railings on his deck. He's never tried sanding but believes it could be provided it was slow speed or hand sanding because at elevated temperatures, the material gets "chewy". Never heard that term before but I think I get the idea.

I've ordered a gallon sample and will play with it. I'll finish a few scraps and you can have one to experiment with sanding.

 

[CrealBilly]

Well, this is getting interesting. One of my friends is a lab rat and a fellow woodworker. He's telling me that for the right price (I have a live edge walnut slab he wants), he'd be happy to share with me the secrets he's discovered to properly employ this coating as a wood finish. He claims to have applied 3 coats to some Red Oak and it has been submerged for 3 years with no detectable penetration of the finish. He's used it for tables, a boot box, boat rails and railings on his deck. He's never tried sanding but believes it could be provided it was slow speed or hand sanding because at elevated temperatures, the material gets "chewy". Never heard that term before but I think I get the idea.

I've ordered a gallon sample and will play with it. I'll finish a few scraps and you can have one to experiment with sanding.

We may be on to something good here... this is sounding promising, I am quite hopeful. Finishing is just about like anything else, you keep plugging away with trial and error then eventually develop a repeatable procedure that works close to 99% of the time. Of course it helps to follow directions but if directions don't exist for your application then it's a lot of trial and error... Sounds like your buddy is pretty far along in his procedure development. The chewiness developed with elevated temperatures is a bit concerning as most (but not all) polishing methods generate heat, so my mind is churning... thinking of a couple of ways to try and polish without generating to much heat. One polishing method might be the tried and true wet pumice and rotten stone method - that generates very little if any heat when done by hand.