Plane plain facts?

tvrgeek

Scott
User
I think you're worrying about things too much. LN planes are basically copies of the Bedrock, so are WoodRivers. The irons have/will be around forever.

WR should be on your list. I have a 4, 6 and 7 as well as a LN 4 1/2. I'm way past the "made in China" thing. They are excellent planes. I'll put them up against LN any day.

I've tried putting a thicker iron on a Stanley & had to file the mouth open.

Bottom line it all depends on how much hand planing you do, and what you expect. I can tell you without a doubt in my hands, both WR and LN are notches above Stanley.
I had to open the mouth of my #7, but my #4 and #6 were fine. Actually a good thing as the sole was so worn, it had a trough at the mouth. Unfortunately, it is not as flat end to end as it should be so I can only get to about a .0025 shaving. Not sure if I will fix/replace it as I use my Ridgid jointer , TS, Planer etc. It is the small stuff I am moving off power.

For those who have not noticed, I analyze the daylights out of everything. One, I am cheap so I want to get what I pay for, and two, the old engineer side. Well, I do appreciate the "zen" of working with a tool that works with you. At least this time I am just making notes, not a spreadsheet. I was not that sure about the WR. I'll take your word for it. Might be the smart step up and the rest is splitting hairs.
 

jlimey

Jeff
Senior User
Step one, two, three... But then again, I only own 4 planes, so I don't think my view qualifies. :)

Really need to put a medium shoulder on order so I quit messing up with chisels. Choices seem to be:
Wood River #92 I do not know much about MN65 steel. It is hard, but is it sharp? Knife makers like it. Not sure it is really the best for a plane.
A BenchDog for half the price seems to have a softer higher carbon iron.
Or do I just suck it up first time and go Veritas or Clifton? ( L-N out of stock indefinably. A2 steel) Kind of leaning Clifton.

Logically, I want the sharpest and durability is not that high as it is just for trimming tenons or a rebate. Not like the workout a #4 gets, or the abuse my block gets. ( Just checked it. Edge looks more like a bread knife. My bad. )

Again, my opinion is based on my hand size and experience/lack thereof, the most functional medium size shoulder plane that I have used is the Veritas. Trying to decide how to hold a shoulder plane, at least to trim tenon shoulders, is not obvious. the Veritas model's knob is very "handy". For trimming tenons and rebates, they all can be held intuitively (at the medium size).

Now, for trimming tenons, you may have to think about a router plane! :) I'll have you above 10 planes in a hurry!
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
Surprised no one has mentioned the Veritas bevel up jack plane. You can adjust the angle with a couple of spare blades ground to your bevel preference, or go with the toothed blade for the really gnarly knots. The adjustable mouth also is a plus IMHO.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Well, toss up, Wood river for a shoulder ( I can get it now) or wait a couple months for a Veritas ( twice the price)
Yea, thought about a router plane. Stop dados etc.

OK, off my backside. Ordering a WR #4. Let's see if it gets me hooked. The Narlex chisel is better than my Marples so I do know there can be a difference.

For really ugly stuff, I can start with the Lux head that should get here in a few days, then, gasp, sand. It is going to take some time before I can move away from sandpaper. I am getting much better with scrapers.
 

Cuthriell

Cuthriell
User
Sweet. Bookmarked. I could get in trouble in a site like that. No #92 this week though.
One of the magazines or on line publications reviewed and compared the LN vs Veritas shoulder planes once. They liked both, but gave the nod to Veritas. I have neither. I have purchased WR in the past and found them well made. I have a 4-1/2 that is at least as good as an old bedrock 4-1/2 I have. Only problem is I believe the blade is very hard. It would get small chipping like defects on the edge. I bought a Hock to replace it and have had no problems. The WR blades are thick so the Hock posed no problems. I kept the WR chip breaker.
 

Cuthriell

Cuthriell
User
Well, toss up, Wood river for a shoulder ( I can get it now) or wait a couple months for a Veritas ( twice the price)
Yea, thought about a router plane. Stop dados etc.

OK, off my backside. Ordering a WR #4. Let's see if it gets me hooked. The Narlex chisel is better than my Marples so I do know there can be a difference.

For really ugly stuff, I can start with the Lux head that should get here in a few days, then, gasp, sand. It is going to take some time before I can move away from sandpaper. I am getting much better with scrapers.
Send Patrick an email. He has more than what you see on his list/
 

McRabbet

Rob
Corporate Member
I have both the Veritas Bevel-Up Smoother and Bevel-Up Jack planes and like them very much. I purchased them back in 2014 and chose A2 steel blades -- my newer Veritas planes have PM-V11, which holds a better edge. The A2's are still excellent.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
OK, routers. My use is not to cut the dado, but to clean up a dado, finish a stop dado, hinge mortice etc. So, light duty use. I think the small size simple ones would do for dados, but I wonder if the large base is better for cleaning out hinge mortices.

My first inclination is just a small bent neck chisel, but of course, no depth stop.
L-N and Veritas "small" are out of stock. Large are overkill I believe.
The Cowryman is an interesting tool. For one thing, the blade is like a chisel in you can pull it out and sharpen conventionally, but it is not a "foot" . Basically a chisel in a holder.
Like a lot of tools, most are out of stock.
 

JonB

Jon
User
My latest obsession is watching Rob Cosman videos on using hand planes (and hand cutting dovetails). Rob worked for LN in the 80's and after that had a hand in designing the Wood River planes. He has several videos on planes and one I watched recently comparing refurbishing a classic Stanley plane and buying a new plane from the perspective of a user. In this case , the classic Stanley planes have thinner blades so there is more vibration and the Wood River (design based on the Stanley Bedrock) has more adjustment. He, almost exclusively, uses Wood River planes and recommends them as very good value for the money. His recommendation for an all around user plane is the Wood River #5-1/2, works well on a shooting board and as a smoothing plane. He does say that the LN are very good planes, just at a higher cost.
He also has some very good sharpening videos.
 

jlimey

Jeff
Senior User
My latest obsession is watching Rob Cosman videos on using hand planes (and hand cutting dovetails). Rob worked for LN in the 80's and after that had a hand in designing the Wood River planes. He has several videos on planes and one I watched recently comparing refurbishing a classic Stanley plane and buying a new plane from the perspective of a user. In this case , the classic Stanley planes have thinner blades so there is more vibration and the Wood River (design based on the Stanley Bedrock) has more adjustment. He, almost exclusively, uses Wood River planes and recommends them as very good value for the money. His recommendation for an all around user plane is the Wood River #5-1/2, works well on a shooting board and as a smoothing plane. He does say that the LN are very good planes, just at a higher cost.
He also has some very good sharpening videos.
Not saying that Wood River tools are not a good value (I don't own any so I don't have first hand knowledge), but remember that Rob is not an impartial reviewer. As you point out, he helped design them, sells them on his site, and likely still has a relationship with the company. I would guess that he does not buy his Wood River planes, but I don't have evidence of that. And I enjoy Rob's videos too.

On the other hand, Chris Gochnour (FWW) did rate Wood River and Veritas smoothers as best value. He rated bronze L-N and Clifton best overall.
 

jlimey

Jeff
Senior User
OK, routers. My use is not to cut the dado, but to clean up a dado, finish a stop dado, hinge mortice etc. So, light duty use. I think the small size simple ones would do for dados, but I wonder if the large base is better for cleaning out hinge mortices.

My first inclination is just a small bent neck chisel, but of course, no depth stop.
L-N and Veritas "small" are out of stock. Large are overkill I believe.
The Cowryman is an interesting tool. For one thing, the blade is like a chisel in you can pull it out and sharpen conventionally, but it is not a "foot" . Basically a chisel in a holder.
Like a lot of tools, most are out of stock.
Scott, I was actually referring to using a router plane to trim the tenon cheeks. You reference the sole of the plane off the face of the board. This ensures that the face and tenon cheek are co-planar. Something that just going at the cheek with a tenon plane doesn't do. Of course, does it matter in practice? Just throwing it out there as a possibility.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Router for finishing stopped dados and hinge mortices. ( one of my banes)
Shoulder plane for cleaning up tenons.

The WR #4 is a A-2 iron. I'll probably put it in my Bailey "carpenter" plane and run the Hock O1 in the WR.
 

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Here is a good example of what Monkeypod and also Koa graining looks like.
So much of the wood has this twisting pattern in it. Beautiful when you are done, a real challenge to get there. Planing wood this comes down to the iron being scalpel sharp. If it is not the finish pays the price. BTW, the helical head planers surface this kind of stuff really well. Both Kpa and Monkey pod are Acacia trees. About 10% harder than oak depending on the piece of wood.
 

Attachments

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Tweaking up my planes. Need to get the Bailey as good as I can for a fair fight when the WR gets here. I have a really ugly bit of wood in the vise. Something I cut down and re-sawed. Grain goes every which way. Good test.

I find the M-Power jig to be the most accurate of anything I have ever used for setting the primary but it only goes to 1200 so that is as far as I would use it. I found my WorkSharp is better on chisels, but not irons. My mistake was using the soft leather wheel for the polish. I think I should go back to MDF for the backs. Once the back is a mirror and the primary set, then the few strokes on paper freehand for the cutting edge is easy.
 

jlimey

Jeff
Senior User
Tweaking up my planes. Need to get the Bailey as good as I can for a fair fight when the WR gets here. I have a really ugly bit of wood in the vise. Something I cut down and re-sawed. Grain goes every which way. Good test.
Scott, sounds like WR was the choice. Let us know what you think.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Observation:
Every old plane on E-bay is advertised as the best ever, Bailey or Record patterns going for three times what you can buy one new for. Stanley bedrock planes probably snatched up before I ever see one. Cheaper clones you never heard of asking even more.

Yea, for a #4, went WR.
I found out my Handyman H1205 is actually a MillerFalls 814. It happens to have a Handyman cap on it. Not much difference, as both were the cheap version of a Bailey. Early one as not marked "C" and has slot head screws. Curious, my real Baliey #7 has the frog without the adjustment screw like the Handyman version.
 

cyclopentadiene

Update your profile with your name
User
I have a random assortment including lie nielsen block plane , vintage stanley and new stanley sw. my go to is always the LN and the others are only used if it is dull and there is no time to sharpen. The vintage stanley is second. In terms of bench planes vintage stanley #4 and Woodriver. Stanley is the go to. #5 1890’s vintage stanley and new stanley SW #5 jack. Both are about the Same. #6 is an old Record but rarely use as large planes are a workout!
Overall I rarely use anything except the LN block plane. If I smoothen something large, I use my planer and jointer, use a card scraper if there is any tearout and sand everything smooth. If i need to plane by hand it is usually small and the LN suffices
I build lots of curved pieces and use my veritas and stanley 151 spokeshaves interchangeably. These get 10 times more use in my shop than any handplane.
For a minimal budget LN block plane and Veritas flat spokeshave are my recommendations. $450 total
 

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
Not necessarily... could be WWII vintage as well. They skipped that on some examples. Some don't have it at all, some have the hole but it's unthreaded and some have it as it should be.

Congrats Scott. That means that your plane is pre-1907 :D
 

jlimey

Jeff
Senior User
Not necessarily... could be WWII vintage as well. They skipped that on some examples. Some don't have it at all, some have the hole but it's unthreaded and some have it as it should be.
Didn't realize that. thanks for the heads up. I must admit to not looking at Stanley planes post 1930s
.

I have deleted the previous post.
 

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