old plane, new blade???

[jonnyfontaine]

i recently bought an old (type 9) stanley bailey #4 plane and a hock iron and chipbreaker for it, and now when i set the frog so it's a continuous angle from the mouth to the frog, for very fine shavings, when i extend the blade before it drops deep enough to cut it will hit the mouth of the plane... should i file the mouth opening wider or is there anything else i could do... i don't wanna make the plane unable to make fine shavings but i really wanna use my new blade... or is this blade just not compatible with this plane? on the hock website it said it should fit... any and all advice is appreciated... thanks, jonny

 

[Gofor]

Move the frog back some more (try about half the blade thickness back from frog being exactly in line with the back of the mouth and then adjust as necessary). With the bevel down, you have additional clearance on the back side due to the bevel, so the frog can sit back further than the mouth edge.

I would not file the mouth, and you should not have to. If you flip the plane over and look at it as you have it now, you will be able to see how much more clearance you have before the blade will hit the back of the mouth.

Go

(PS, if you have jammed the blade into the mouth, you may have to rehone before you get those whisper-thin shavings. DAMHIKT!)

 

[Ozzie-x]

Mark is right. Try adjusting the frog back until the blade clears the front of the throat. This should work with the Hock replacement blade. The Hock blades are thicker (0.095"?) than the original blades (~0.080"? or there-about). You should be able to fettle the frog and get it to work. Take a look at the video on the Hock site and that will help you. In the video, Ron Hock demonstrates setting up an older Stanley plane with a new Hock blade. He makes it look really easy.

The radically thicker blades like some of the Lie Nielsen or STW blades that are a full 1/8" (0.125") or more and are always problematic in getting them to work properly. With these really thick blades, when the frog is adjusted back enough for the leading edge of the blade to clear the front of the throat, the blade bevel will hit in the back of the throat before the blade contacts the planing surface. So if you want to use a really thick hot rod blade, you often have no choice but to file the front of the throat.

Filing the throat is not a sin against the old tool gods with common planes like Stanley #4's and #5's since they are so plentiful and (relatively) cheap. On the other hand, I would not file the mouth on a bedrock or some of the other more expensive or collectible planes, there's other options. I have a beauty 603C type 6 that I "tried" to install an 1/8" A2 cryo STW blade in, and the blade is just too thick to work no matter what you try. The only option is to file the mouth and I'm just not going to do it on this nice old plane. I guess I'll get one of the thinner Hock blades for it or just use the stock Stanley "V" logo blade......... :icon_thum

 

[JimReed2160]

I agree with the others about moving the frog, but disagree about not filing. Stanley #4 planes are pretty common so you are not messing up something that might end its days at the Smithsonian. There is nothing sacred about the mouth and filing allows you even it up a bit. The original Stanley blades are 1/16" or less in thickness. This is a marginal size and leads to chatter. Thicker is better, but as others have noted, twice as thick can cause problems. I make my replacement blades 3/32". That is 50% thicker to control the chatter yet still thin enough to not cause problems with the mouth or with the adjuster. Sometimes it is necessary to file the mouth a little in front. Not alot, but about 1/64 or so--just enough to let the chips clear.

Here is how you do it. Adjust your frog back as far as you can. It needs to support the blade, but does not need to be exactly flush with the back of the mouth. Install the blade and check for clearance. If you still need some room, use a thin file running parallel to the frog bed and file the mouth evenly all across. You will probably find that your first file pass evens up the mouth. Check your progress by reinstalling the blade and looking at the clearance. Sight down the blade length. You need to see light that is about the thickness of a sheet of copy paper. File and inspect. Make sure you file evenly and make sure you file parallel to the frog--not perpendicular to the sole.

When it starts looking good, start testing with light cuts on scrap. At some point, things will come together. I like to use clear construction lumber (2x4 or 2x8) scraps for testing. The pine is easy on the blade. Once you are able to pull long shavings that do not clog, you are done. Less is more in this case because you can always file a little more later if it is necessary. Good luck.

 

[Mike Davis]

Yeah, that's how I do 'em. I don't have any expensive collectible planes (that I know of) so I do what ever it takes to make 'em work.

 

[willarda]

I would exhaust all possibilities before I modified an old plane, even a relatively common Stanley, and even if it only meant widening the mouth. Guess that is just reluctance to alter something that has lots of history and functionality behind it. I would bet that moving the frog back will solve the problem. Thicker plades still rest on the same bed, but the bevels are just longer, so moving the frog back even further will still be possible. There is a good amount of room for from adjustment.