No plastic resin glue to be found

[Toddler]

I've been very frustrated trying to find some weldwood locally to laminate my bubinga and paduak boards for the guitar neck. That was the recommendation to avoid creep.

But nobody stocks it. Shipping is more $ than the glue!

I researched some online and didn't find any real downside to using marine 2 part epoxy. It's strong, flexible enough for boats, and I can get a quart for $14 at Merrit Marine in Hillsborough.

Any special issues with this stuff? Since I'm gluing flat board faces, 3x40", there isn't any fancy fitting together of parts, so I'm not too worried about open time.

Should I still wipe down the faces with acetone to remove oils? Then just clamp overnight. . .?

thanks,

Todd

 

[Travis Porter]

I have seen it at some of the larger BORG stores. I expect the HD in Hillsborough does not stock it. I would expect Woodcraft and Klingspor in Raleigh to stock it as well as Rockler and Woodccraft in Hillsborough. I can't say what quality of joint you will have with the epoxy, but I would wipe the faces down with Acetone as you describe to remove the oils.

 

[Toddler]

I figure if epoxy works on boat transoms, it should be strong enough for a guitar neck

Raleigh is an hour drive, seems pretty far to go for glue and I couldn't get out there for several days.

Also, the epoxy has a larger range of wood MC where it will work. 5% up to 20%. I don't have a meter, but am pretty sure the boards are will within that range since they are kiln dried and have been in my dry house for a while.

Todd

 

[Howard Acheson]

You will probably have to mail order it. Go to Jamestown Distributors at: Boat Building and Woodworking Supplies.

 

[Jim Hancock]

If I am not mistaken, Gorilla Glue is nothing more than polyurethane glue. I have foung this at both borgs and wallay world. Unless you are using a good bit of it get the smaller bottles as it goes bad after a year or so.

 

[McRabbet]

Here's a good choice for easy fixing and certain results -- Woodworker's Supply carries 5 lb pails of urea resin glue that works very well and is on about $25 for the pail. Used by John Richards (Woodguy1975) for many of his projects.

Rob

 

[botebum]

Bubinga is a difficult wood to glue because of it's closed cell structure. Paduak, not too bad. Use acetone on both woods and lightly sand gluing surfaces immediately prior to glue up. I wouldn't suggest using epoxies such as West System or System123. They require some thickness to work properly and you probably don't want a heavy glue line that that would entail. If it were me, I'd use Gorilla Glue and follow the directions religiously. Go to their website Gorilla Tough and take advantage of their directions link. Within that link you'll find another link regarding use with specific woods including Bubinga and Rosewood(which I believe is pretty close to Paduak). Hope this helps.

Doug

 

[SteveColes]

OK guys, time for some more info.

We have Urea Formaldehyde glue
Urea resin glue
Gorilla Glue
Plastic resin Glue
Polyurethane Glue

Differences, pros and cons, please.

 

[botebum]

Gorilla Glue is a Polyurethane Glue
Urea Formaldehyde glue and plastic resin glue are the same thing. Urea glue may be(I don't know) the same also.

Both have plusses and minuses. If you go with Urea Formaldehyde keep in mind that it contains inhalable carcinogens. Also choose a brand/type that dries clear. Resourcinol does not. For cost,ease and safety, I'd go with Gorilla Glue.

Doug

 

[jeff...]

OK guys, time for some more info.

We have Urea Formaldehyde glue
Urea resin glue
Gorilla Glue
Plastic resin Glue
Polyurethane Glue

Differences, pros and cons, please.

I'm with you Steve, where's the beef

 

[Toddler]

Hey Guys,

I went to the marine store and spoke to the guy there. Chad Merrit. Really nice guy.

He had a polyester resin that he uses to glue transoms on boats, and thought it would work, but because the bubinga is hard and both woods are oily, we went to the marine catalog and ordered the epoxy system recommended for hard and oily woods. They had several different ones.

This one works to glue fiberglass, metal, or wood to hardwoods. This is in marine applications where they use teak and other exotic and oily woods. We thought it was a good choice, if severe overkill. And if I put it in the fridge, the unmixed part will last for a long time. Couple of years I'm told. Good thing too, I ordered a quart at $45

Todd

edit: I spoke with Carl Merrit. Chad's name was on the card I grabbed and I doubted my memory and hearing too much. Both are nice guys.

 

[DavidF]

Hey Guys,

I went to the marine store and spoke to the guy there. Chad Merrit. Really nice guy.

He had a polyester resin that he uses to glue transoms on boats, and thought it would work, but because the bubinga is hard and both woods are oily, we went to the marine catalog and ordered the epoxy system recommended for hard and oily woods. They had several different ones.

This one works to glue fiberglass, metal, or wood to hardwoods. This is in marine applications where they use teak and other exotic and oily woods. We thought it was a good choice, if severe overkill. And if I put it in the fridge, the unmixed part will last for a long time. Couple of years I'm told. Good thing too, I ordered a quart at $45

Todd

I guess I'm just too late! I have a 5Lb pail of the Urea Resin glue that Woodworkers supply have and would be willing to part with a pound of it for free as I would would rather that than it go off before I use it all. Anybody else out there need some, just let me know.

 

[Toddler]

Hey David,

That is a mighty nice offer and I really do apreciate it. In fact, if I don't have success with the Epoxy, maybe I'll take you up on it. I think we'd have to find a barter solution, though.

Thanks again for the offer,

Todd

PS) Botebum, Gorilla glue says it is hard to glue Bubinga for the reason you stated. They also recommended a high clamping pressure for all the wood types I'm using. The epoxy apparently also requires a high clamping pressure. It sounds like the maple, paduak, and basswood I'm using won't be a problem, but the bubinga will be tough. I'll rub it down with acetone and sand it lightly a couple of times before I glue it, and I'll use a tight clamp pressure. Guess we'll see . . .

 

[DavidF]

Hey David,

That is a mighty nice offer and I really do apreciate it. In fact, if I don't have success with the Epoxy, maybe I'll take you up on it. I think we'd have to find a barter solution, though.

Thanks again for the offer,

Todd

No Problem, just let me know.

 

[jglord]

Just thought I'd weigh-in. IMHO, Gorilla glue is great but a real mess to use:
1. it stains you fingers a nasty brown
2. when curing properly, it foams so a) it can push lightly clamped items apart, and b) what would be squeeze-out with other glues you can wipe off when clamping, with Gorilla glue, you get foam coming out for the first 30 minutes or so.
I still use Gorilla glue for gluing things like metal t-track into wood but for wood-to-wood I prefer Titebond III. It is water proof, has very little creep, and you can clean squeeze-out with a damp rag prior to set-up.

 

[Toddler]

I have a bottle of titebond 3, but wasn't sure how well it would bond the bubinga.

Have you ever tried it on bubinga?

Todd

 

[jglord]

I have not tried it with bubinga either, but have used it with brazilian cherry with great results.
I've emailed Titebond tech support with this question and will post their response.

 

[Howard Acheson]

I know it's redundant but here goes:

Polyurethane Glue (generic name)
Gorilla Glue (Brand name for poly glue)

First, let me say I am not a fan of the poly glues primarily because I have found no advantage to them over standard PVA glues when gluing wood to wood joints except for gluing oily, exotic woods. "Creep" is much less of a problem but there are other adhesives that are creep resistant such as plastic resin and hide glue. I'm sure there are other opinions however.

That said, like any PVA glue (white or yellow) the poly's are no stronger than the wood itself--and may be weaker if they are not used correctly. They cure by a reaction with moisture but many use too much adhesive and moisture. Excess moisture increases the reaction but shortens open time--one of their claimed benefits--and results in excessive foaming and a weaker joint. If the wood is at a moisture content of 10% or more, additional dampening is probably detrimental, not helpful. There are now PVA glues with extended open time. In fact the white PVA has virtually exactly the same open time as the poly. The yellow PVA was formulated originally to respond to woodworkers who wanted a faster setting adhesive. Strangely, some poly glues are now being marketted that have a shorter open time and faster cure because some wood workers have complained about the longer clamp time required for the original polys.

Some poly adhesives are certified to meet the ANSI Type 1 waterproof standard which means they can be used for totally submerged applications. However, for normal, non-submerged outdoor use, a type II adhesive will work as well.

While "gap filling" they fill gaps with foam which has no strength. The adhesive expands as it cures tending to force glued surfaces apart so tight clamping is required. They also require that the clamp pressure be maintained for much longer than most other adhesives.

It contains hazardous materials and should be used in a ventilated area and kept away from skin if you believe the Material Safety Data Sheet. If it gets on your hands, only time will will remove the stain.

Finally, they cost much more than other glues and IMO, do not offer many advantages over less expensive adhesives.


Urea formaldehyde (generic name, also know as "UF" and "Urea Resin")
Plastic Resin (Brand name of UF made and marketed by DAP/Weldwood)

UF is an excellent glue. It has a somewhat longer open time than PVA. It does not exhibit any "creep" like PVA so is very good to use for panel glue ups. It's as water resistant as Titebond II.

 

[Toddler]

Found this article:
WoodCentral Articles & Reviews

It is for marine applications, but if you read down you will see a description of various glues.

Todd

PS)Apparently this is the source thread Are Your Glue Joints Repairable? - Woodwork Forums

 

[jglord]

Here's what the folks at Titebond said:


Thank you for your inquiry. Yes, it is very important to provide clean
gluing surfaces when bonding woods like Babinga. The bond surfaces
should be freshly cut and wiped with acetone just before applying the
glue. It is also important to allow for a longer clamp time and
additional drying time for the glue to reach full strength. Exotic
woods like Babinga tend to slow the glues ability to dry. I hope this
information is helpful to you.

Sincerely,

Marc Bergdahl
Technical Specialist
Franklin international