Market price for winter propane rising

[CrealBilly]

I'm seriously considering a water stove, the sawmill generates a lot of wood waste that could be used to supplement fuel needed for operation. However, I would like to find one that I can load with the bobcat - a create full at a time and I would like to have 12 or 24 volt DC battery backup in the event of a power outage.

Just the thought of having hot water and heat without paying the electric or gas company is pretty appealing. Battery backup would be second on the list of requirements because we simply do not have many power outages here - the electric cooperative is very good at keeping trees cut beyond falling distance from the lines and is supper quick to restore power when lost. It might help that I have the EC VP living on my road too :dontknow:

 

[Rick M]

I sure don't like heat pumps despite all of the hype about them. I'll pay for the propane and have warmth so that I don't feel cold.

Set a heat pump floor vent next to a propane or natural gas vent and set both at 68 degrees. Feel the difference on your bare feet?

I don't feel cold and the few seconds a day I'm standing next to a vent isn't worth hundreds of dollars. Originally I estimated the heat pump would take 3 winters to pay for itself but because we had 2 cold winters it only took 1.5. To each their own on how they spend their money though.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mkepke]

I got tired of the high propane charges and switched to an electric heat pump. You don't get the warm blast of air but the house is warm and is so much cheaper.

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I've 'split the difference' at my house.

The house has two zones with two xcompletely separate HVAC units. Both used to be propane. When the zone for the lower part of the house conked out (cracked heat exchanger), I replaced it with an air-to-air heat pump with electric strips for emergency heat. The upstairs zone remains propane - at least until it needs replacement.

My calculation was this:
* An air-to-air heat pumps are now efficient to close to freezing (YMMV)
* Most of the Triangle's heating degree days are within the operating range of the heatpump
* Resistance heat strips can be used to augment the heatpump, e.g. if the heatpump can only supply 80% of the necessary heat, the resistance strips can add the remaining 20%
* A gas furnace cannot be used to augment the heatpump, e.g. if the heatpump can only supply 80% of the necessary heat, it must be turned off and a gas furnace used to supply 100% of the heat
* 100% electric heat is less expensive than propane heat if propane is more than $2.50/gal ($0.11/kWH and 85% AFUE propane)

Based on all that I concluded that a heat pump with electric aux heat would always be cheaper than propane heat. Mind you I never factored in Duke buying Progress Energy ;-)

-Mark

 

[Drew]

Bought over 200 gallons today and paid $3.80 a gallon. Cost was 2.55 a gallon one month ago. That was painful but I couldn't foresee a scenario where's the price was lower in a month. I long for natural gas!

 

[windknot]

I had my 100# cylinder filled today. Last fill up was $65. Today was $80. and the price increase of .30 gallon from yesterday was not included. That is a 23% increase over the last 45 days. I wish I could find a way to get a 23% raise

 

[Hmerkle]

Just step up on a 16.1" inch step! :rotflm:

That is assuming a 5' 10" (average male) 70" X .23= 16.1

As my boss once told me - that is about all the raise you are going to get at this company!

Remember - they are burning off natural gas in North Dakota and Wyoming - and getting sued for it!
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/17/2801111/natural-gas-flaring-lawsuit/

 

[junquecol]

I long for natural gas!

Eat more beans! There is a natural gas line on other side of street from my houses. but it's a 1300 PSI transmission line, not a 65 PSI distribution line. My rental house would be an easy connect, but my residence is too far away. When we built our house in 1980, I put in a hybrid system, heat pump + gas furnace. House only requires 23,000 BTU per hour at 20 F. Outdoor thermostat changes from HP to gas around 18F. But we haven't lite the furnace pilot for the last four years. Sure we wake up about twice a year with the house cool (less than 68,) but most days by 9:00 it's warm enough for HP to come on. If not, we lite vent free logs in fireplace. When this HP dies, it will be replaced with a HP with hydronic coil for back up heat, using water heater. That's the system in my rental house.

 

[petebucy4638]

My neighborhood was mostly built out when Piedmont showed up to run natural gas lines. Most of the homes were either 100% electric or they were mostly electric with a gas cook-top or gas logs. In order for Piedmont to bring in the gas line to the house, for free by the way, I had to swap out the electric water heater for a gas unit and add one other appliance, in my case a natural gas stove.

Very few people in the neighborhood whose homes were already finished every converted over to natural gas. Most who have gas appliances still have propane. Why Piedmont took so long to plan gas for our neighborhood made no sense.

I'm a builder by trade. As natural gas prices continued to increase, it turned out that a high-efficiency heat-pump was actually cheaper to run than a gas furnace. I had a lot of clients call asking what they needed to do to change over from natural gas furnaces to heat-pumps. We have installed a few heat-pumps with a natural gas furnace in place of electric heat-strips. I think that is what I would do here when I replace the current heat-pumps someday.

One of my friends who lived in Tennessee licensed some his farm to allow a gas company to run a pipeline through it. In addition to a licensing fee, they allowed him virtually unlimited amounts of natural gas to supply his home and his small farm.

Pete

I can literally SEE the natural gas line in my neighborhood, but PSNC want's $3500 to run it to my house. It's really frustrating.

 

[golfdad]

Got lucky here....filled up a week and a half ago @ 2.29/gal:icon_thum

 

[walnutjerry]

I'm seriously considering a water stove, the sawmill generates a lot of wood waste that could be used to supplement fuel needed for operation.

Jeff-----you have the ideal situation for a water stove. I have used one in the past and they are efficient. I probably used 6 to 8 pieces od wood about 8 inches diameter in 24 hours to heat 1400 sq. ft. and the domestic hot water. I had baseboard hot water heat and it was the best heat we ever had. It was really easy to switch over from fuel oil. All that said-----it still is not free heat even if you own property with trees on it. you have to have chain saws, trucks, gas for the mentioned and maintenance for all of those things. Plus a lot of work. That work part is a big factor as you get older and your health begins to take its tole. That is my reason for converting to a heat pump---------I simply can not do the physical work I once could do. The cost of seasoned hardwood by the truck load is out of sight in this area so the heat pump is still more efficient for me.

In your case, burning the slabs or any other waste from cutting logs is a ready made supply of fuel for you. Plus you already have what is needed to gather the wood and get it to the house. Go for it man!!!

Jerry

 

[CrealBilly]

I'm seriously considering a water stove, the sawmill generates a lot of wood waste that could be used to supplement fuel needed for operation.

Jeff-----you have the ideal situation for a water stove. I have used one in the past and they are efficient. I probably used 6 to 8 pieces od wood about 8 inches diameter in 24 hours to heat 1400 sq. ft. and the domestic hot water. I had baseboard hot water heat and it was the best heat we ever had. It was really easy to switch over from fuel oil. All that said-----it still is not free heat even if you own property with trees on it. you have to have chain saws, trucks, gas for the mentioned and maintenance for all of those things. Plus a lot of work. That work part is a big factor as you get older and your health begins to take its tole. That is my reason for converting to a heat pump---------I simply can not do the physical work I once could do. The cost of seasoned hardwood by the truck load is out of sight in this area so the heat pump is still more efficient for me.

In your case, burning the slabs or any other waste from cutting logs is a ready made supply of fuel for you. Plus you already have what is needed to gather the wood and get it to the house. Go for it man!!!

Jerry

Thanks Jerry... i often dreamed of each room being it's own zone. I think it could be done with baseboard heat along with a small pump/controller and thermostat in each room. Still need AC though thats the downside of baseboard heat and a water stove.

 

[CrealBilly]

I found a little information on propane prices that may be of interest to some.

Weekly North Carolina Residential Propane Prices ---> http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPLLPA_PRS_SNC_DPG&f=W

Weekly Illinois Propane Wholesale/Resale Propane Prices ---> http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPLLPA_PWR_SIL_DPG&f=W

At the time of this post, the graphs are showing week of Feb 3 propane prices for NC - $4.067 / IL - $2.854.

I know a lot of folks were talking around here in Southern IL about the cost of propane when it reached $4.431 a gallon at the end of Jan - it wasn't good talk either... propane has since come down some, thankfully I didn't need any when it was that high... we filled up at the beginning of Jan when it was $1.79 a gallon. Maybe it will come down in NC too like it has for us in Southern IL.