Joinery Goals

[donald.woolley]

My sister-in-law (a professor of woodworking and furniture design at Edinboro University of Pennsylvania) was in my shop recently and was surprised that I was planning on painting a dovetailed chest that I was working on. Her comment was that my dovetails looked good and did not need to be hidden.

While I lean toward utility and she leans toward the artistic, this makes me wonder: How many of you use traditional joinery (dovetails, mortise and tenons, drawbores, etc.) just because it is often the strongest way of doing something and how many of you prefer it to show off your skills?

It is probably not a dichotomy, but a continuum that we are all on—though each of us probably leans a bit more to one aspect or the other. Wood choice and end use would also have to have an impact in this, but which direction do you lean?

 

[Bill Clemmons]

This is my personal opinion, which doesn't mean it is right. :nah:

The glues we have today are incredibly strong. In most cases a well made, glued butt or rabbit joint will hold extremely well. So that means there are two reasons to use "fancy" joinery, such as dovetails or finger joints: 1) aesthetics. 2) you want a strong joint without using glue or other mechanical fasteners (nails, screws, etc).

Another factor which may come into play is end grain, which does not present the best glue joint.

 

[Rwe2156]

Many other joint options are just as strong as DT's (especially for drawers) so they are not really an efficient method labor wise.

In the case of your project I think they are the best joint to use.

I use them in drawers if the design or furniture type demands it, such as a repro antique desk or something.

We do them because its a mark of craftsmanship?

 

[Mike Davis]

Had cut dovetails are the difference between production factory furniture and artisan crafted heirloom furniture. Whether it is the strength or the looks or just knowing they are there gives one a sense of quality that nothing else can match.

 

[StephenK]

Great topic!

Even an ugly dovetail is pretty darn strong. So is a rabbeted and nailed joint. Peter Follansbee makes beautiful carved oak boxes with rabbets and nails. They are period appropriate.

The Schwarz recently posted plans for a rabbeted, glued, and nailed tool chest on his company's blog. He even suggests sizing the end grain with hide glue to increase the glue joint's strength.

I use traditional joinery because of its function. I just want to make things that will last. If it looks perty, it's a bonus, but I wouldn't hesitate to paint my tool chest if I wanted too. I don't really care if others see the dovetails or not.

 

[StephenK]

I'll also add that period pieces also have nailed dovetails. I'm pretty sure Follansbee mentioned this in a recent Popular Woodworking article. Nailing the tails is a suspenders and belt solution, and folks did it frequently enough.

 

[cyclopentadiene]

I build a lot of Maloof inspired pieces. Everything is about the joinery and flowing lines. Function can be purchased at IKEA in expensively. High quality furniture with beautiful joinery should be for looks

 

[Jeff]

If you set out designing a piece that you're going to paint there's no need to use fancy joinery but you do want strong joinery and there are lots of ways to do that besides dovetails.

Showcasing good craftsmanship is different so don't paint it and use an appropriate finish.

Curious again. What wood species are you using for this project and why'd you choose to paint it? ...And with what?

 

[Joe Scharle]

I've looked at a lot of old furniture and have learned at least one thing. Those craftsman worked for their time and their time was money. If a piece was to be admired for the quality of it's joinery, wood and finish, then the time was placed into the work and reflected in the fee.
But other pieces of a more utilitarian purpose may have what we see as quality joinery, only where the glue of the time, would be a point of early failure. So I've seen drawer fronts nailed due to the stresses of use and drawer backs nailed for the same reason. The carcases in these pieces are more often than not, nailed as well. Keeping in mine that nails in that day cost more that the woodworker's time. However, some talented woodworkers could cut a ring of dovetails in 10 minutes and save money on nails..

 

[donald.woolley]

It would appear that we do all fit on a continuum between the two choices, but none of us are a static point since our reasoning changes from project to project.

In my case, I have been building small storage chests (to replace several cardboard boxes that have grown annoying in the back room) and variations of the school box from “The Joiner and the Cabinet Maker.” I have used white pine ( or “deal” as the book refers to it) in both cases for simplicity and weight. The storage chests are being painted to match a painted shaker bookcase that they will stack next to and the school boxes are being given to staff of my lab who are leaving for medical or grad school—and they have had definite ideas about finish. I have had Duke blue, emerald green and fire-engine red in the past few months. It was the then soon to be fire-engine red one that my sister-in-law commented on.

If I ever get out of my current “building for utility” phase, I am sure that my methods (and wood choices) will change, shifting me along the continuum.

 

[donald.woolley]

And thank you, everyone, for responding.

 

[Jeff]

Donald,

Gotcha.

Some pics of your "utilitarian" painted boxes would be interesting for general sharing.

 

[donald.woolley]

This is what I get for not looking online over the weekend. I only have the lids complete on the small storage chests so far, but I will try to take pictures of two other chests that I made in the same style when I go home. What I do have with me are (bad) pictures of a small nail chest (dovetailed with a breadboard lid):

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I also see now that I should have tried resizing them before I put them in a post.

 

[Charlie Buchanan]

Heres a link to a video about secret mitered dovetails. Addresses the show-or-no-show issue maybe with an 18th century perspective. Also shows how to make them.

http://woodandshop.com/secret-miter...theim-colonial-williamsburg-hay-cabinet-shop/