I Finally Jumped In

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
After discounting their need in a WWing shop for some time, I was presented with a challenge by my daughter's boyfriend to build a pedal board for his guitar. We had built one last year from wood and some old perforated patch cabinet panels, but I saw this as an opportunity to help the both of us expand our skill sets and capabilities. He had already begun design through a CAD program.
I started watching the 'net for either a used machine or a bargain on a new one. For our project we needed ~100cm square table. Finally located one last week and picked it up after a 120 mile road trip to Hillsborough. It was an NIB X Carve that was 2 years old and had never been assembled. Assembly instructions online have been very thorough and I've been working on it off and on this week and I'm looking forward to starting it up.
Not wanting to turn this into a business presently, and I can already see MANY possibilities for its use meeting my needs. Just wanted to know how the CNC community is doing here at NCWW and hear some of the dos/don'ts you may have that aren't seen on the popular YouTube videos out there?
 

kserdar

Ken
Senior User
Where to start???? I am not familiar with your machine. But you will be, once you start using it.
Good software is a big plus.
Don't start right off using expensive wood and bits.
When I started 20+ years ago. The saying was that your build wasn't complete until you broken your first bit.
 

Chaz

Chaz
Senior User
I made a decent pedalboard from 18mm birch plywood for myself. I did not use a CNC machine.

That said, I use my CNC rig for a lot of things. I've considered making guitar-related products, but I'm tapped out on time.

Ken offers good advice. There are cheap bits galore on the web. MDF is a good wood for prototyping. Some folks, use foam sheets (really messy).

If you're thinking "production" you'll want to move on from an X-Carve. It's a decent machine, and you can make a lot of stuff with one, but it's not suited to the rigors of production work.

Get a good dust collection system asap. CNC routers generate a lot of dust and chips.

Use 1/4" bits and designs made for them to begin with. Look for "down cut" bits. They will give you cleaner results

YouTube is your friend.
 

kserdar

Ken
Senior User
I was browsing some of my old CNC files ...
Capture.jpg

I know this wasn't my first cut ... seems like a long time ago.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
I made a decent pedalboard from 18mm birch plywood for myself. I did not use a CNC machine.

That said, I use my CNC rig for a lot of things. I've considered making guitar-related products, but I'm tapped out on time.

Ken offers good advice. There are cheap bits galore on the web. MDF is a good wood for prototyping. Some folks, use foam sheets (really messy).

If you're thinking "production" you'll want to move on from an X-Carve. It's a decent machine, and you can make a lot of stuff with one, but it's not suited to the rigors of production work.

Get a good dust collection system asap. CNC routers generate a lot of dust and chips.

Use 1/4" bits and designs made for them to begin with. Look for "down cut" bits. They will give you cleaner results

YouTube is your friend.
If I go the production route I'll definitely upgrade but this is a 'gateway' machine for me. I'm already looking at prototype materials that I have on hand and sacrificial spoil board options.
As for dust collection, the original purchaser added that option when he bought it but from what YouTube videos I've seen I'll probably upgrade to a system more than a shop vac, if for nothing else, the noise factor. Although there are plans out there for shop vac mufflers, I'll probably go with a filter bag system. Just got everything assembled tonight and I'll probably get into some tinker cutting by the end of the week. Photos to come.
 

ashley_phil

Phil Ashley
Corporate Member
fwiw google how to make a vaccum hold down table with your shop vac, unless you're cutting really small pieces that will be a life saver for you.

always use a mdf spoil board over your actual machine table

you're a smart diligent guy i'm sure you'll figure it out. down cut bits are good advice and slow cut rates will go a long way. you can speed up once you've confirmed it's doing what you want
 

riggsp

Phil
Corporate Member
Evn though daughters BF has been doing a design in CAD, unless you know how to program a CNC machine, you'll be ahead by investing in a good CAD/CAM software package...I would suggest one of the Vectric products,as their price point is really good compared to some...the software is very intuitive...and they have a very active and helpful users forum.
You can visit their website and download a free version of any of their software, and it has full capability other than posting machine code for running the machine.
www.vectric.com
 

Chaz

Chaz
Senior User
If I go the production route I'll definitely upgrade but this is a 'gateway' machine for me. I'm already looking at prototype materials that I have on hand and sacrificial spoil board options.
As for dust collection, the original purchaser added that option when he bought it but from what YouTube videos I've seen I'll probably upgrade to a system more than a shop vac, if for nothing else, the noise factor. Although there are plans out there for shop vac mufflers, I'll probably go with a filter bag system. Just got everything assembled tonight and I'll probably get into some tinker cutting by the end of the week. Photos to come.
My CNC rig uses its own dust handling system, based on a 6HP Ridgid vac from Home Depot. I have a Dust Deputy cyclonic separator in the system. I ran it for about 6 months and got 5 gallons of course sawdust and chips from the deputy and about a pound of superfine dust out of the vac. Yes it's noisy. So is my CNC. I'm working on a part right now that takes about 1/2 hour to run. The process is stable, so I can work in other parts of my shop and get away from the noise.

I have a Laguna B|Flux for the rest of the shop.
 
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blackhawk

Brad
Corporate Member
Don't forget to turn on your router before starting to run a file. Decimal places are important with a CNC. Have a good ground running to the machine.

I've been using Vectric software for about 14 years now. Customer support and tutorials are great.

If you start doing CNC as a business, your best customers will be other businesses. I tried making house signs and do-dads when I first started, but they were hard to sell and very little profit. My biggest profits now come from commercial signs up to 4'x8'. Sign making is another realm as there are a lot of techniques to learn.
 

Chuck N

Chuck
Corporate Member
If using a router (Makita or DeWalt), instead of a spindle, runout on end mills can be substantial with standard router collets. I upgraded the collets and greatly reduced runout which greatly increased the quality of out. I wish I had known to take this step in the beginning.

Take the time to tram the router and level the spoil board accurately. It is a tedious process the first time but is essential to quality. Make sure every screw and bolt on your machine is tight. Vacuum the machine after every use. Once a week check belts, pulleys, screws and bolts. Keep sawdust from building up and properly lubricate the machine. I read the forums every day for my brand of machine and software. I found I don't experience the machine problems many newbies experience because I am fanatical about maintenance and cleanup.

For dust collection a Fein shop vac, combined with Oneida dust deputy, is a decent solution. The Fein is a quiet and quality shop vac. It is more expensive than a standard shop vacuum but much quieter and it is less expensive than the Festool dust collectors some use. The dust deputy will capture most of the dust, thereby saving on bags. A quality HEPA bag in the shop vac will capture the small dust particles making your lungs happy. If you use the Oneida dust deputy between the bag and your machine, you'll use few bags. I've only changed out the bag once in 9 months and I also use my CNC vac to clean the shop floor.

Static electricity is a problem for some. I haven't had it. I use a grounded vac hose. I have the vac on a different circuit in the shop than my CNC and router. I have the router and the CNC plugged into a surge protector strip with EFI filter built in. The Oneida dust deputy can also be grounded. I haven found the need yet.

Good end mills are expensive and worth the price once you have some skill. I use many Whiteside bits I buy online or from Klingspor. Also Amana, Cadence, and others. When you break a good bit it hurts though given the cost of buying an end mill. Some people buy inexpensive Chinese bits on Amazon during the learning phase. I didn't, but I only broke 3 bits during the first few months because I was extremely careful and disciplined with the process of machine set up and contribution of tool paths. Even then I sat at the machine through every carve with my finger on the kill button and several times had to execute an emergency stop to keep from breaking a bit or gouging the spoil board.

I started my CNC journey with an ambitious project and struggled. I was extremely frustrated and almost quit. I realized I needed knowledge and practice to learn the software, the capabilities of different end mills, and my CNC. I spent two weeks putting my scrap pile to good use trying different simple designs and bit paths to learn feeds and speeds, and the capabilities of different bits. Learning how upcut, downcut, and compression bits work with various types of wood and how to V-carve was essential. Once I had accomplished dozens of trials in small pieces I glued several pieces of scrap together and tried designing and making a fairly simple sign. I was delighted to find this trail produced an acceptable finished piece. This gave me the confidence to move forward. I can now sit at the computer to design and take it directly to milling on the CNC. I found another good trial project to be constructing a tool drawer insert out of MDF or foam. It is a useful project and allows one to practice different pocket shapes. Most use MDF for this project. I tried Kaizen foam and was very pleased with the result. By the way MDF, though dusty, is good for practice. It cuts nicely and doesn't splinter easy like softer woods and oak. Most hardwoods are great for cutting.

With software I started simple. The free Carbide Create software that comes with Shapeoko machines. Now that I've developed 2D skills I recently upgraded to the pay subscription version of the pro version of Carbide Create. So far I've found the software allows me to do anything I've tried to tackle. I am still learning and skill building after nearly 9 months. I don't know if I'll need more sophisticated software (Fusion 360, Vectric products, or Carveco) in the future, but if I do I can move to it. I find simple and practical works for me. Plus the company Carbide 3D has outstanding technical support for users and its user community social media forums are an incredible source of information.

Patience, persistence, and time are key to climbing the learning curve. Take on small simple projects that deliver quick and easy victories to keep you motivated. It is like learning to ride a bike as a child. Many tumbles and then one day it all clicks and you start moving with ease. Today I love working with the machine. It is now my wife's favorite piece of shop equipment and her project list, for me and the CNC, is a mile long.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
Do: start simple. learn your machines capabilities (and yours) . Do: ask questions, otherwise, youll get frustrated. Dont: buy 3D files online.
 

tri4sale

Daniel
Corporate Member
Do: start simple. learn your machines capabilities (and yours) . Do: ask questions, otherwise, youll get frustrated. Dont: buy 3D files online.

Disagree with don't buy 3D files online, I've bought plenty and had great success with them. Depending on the need it's quicker and easier to buy what someone has already created if it's the same as what is needed.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
Disagree with don't buy 3D files online, I've bought plenty and had great success with them. Depending on the need it's quicker and easier to buy what someone has already created if it's the same as what is needed.
I shouldve clarified, there are lots of people selling NC files (tool paths)
 

kg5000

Kenny
User
Dust collection is an absolute MUST from the very beginning. MDF generates an obscene amount of dust. If you need to troubleshoot the machine without the dust shoe in place I highly recommend a good N95 dust mask.

Vectric VCarve Desktop is a great CAD/CAM package. The software costs $350 and is worth every penny. Vectric has close to 100 training videos online to teach you all kinds of good stuff. There's also tons of YouTubers with VCarve training videos. VCarve is excellent at setting up toolpaths. Vectric will also let you step up to VCarve Pro or Aspire for just the difference in price. VCarve Desktop does a cut size limit of 24" by 24" (Pro is not limited).

I ran my router at WAY to high a speed for years ruining a lot of router bits in the process. Learning the right "feed and speed" is important. These days I typically run 12,000 RPM at around 40 - 50 inches per minute for most wood and typical 4 flute end mills.

One more plug for Vectric: They put projects out for free download monthly. They will have a companion video you can watch for how they created the project and tips for how to set up your machine to make it.
 

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