How many here do commission work?

[wdwrkr]

I support myself completely doing this work and have for several years. Gave up an engineering career to do it. I love doing this - got tired of dealing with my peers in exec mgmt.
So far, I have not experienced anything that would "ruin a hobby" I think as BAS said. I have though, given away a great deal of my time in the form of eating underpriced work. About 20% of my customers pay what it's worth, about 40% cringe at the price and go with it anyway, and the balance I never see again.
Everyone appreciates "knowing" they are getting custom made, but very few realize what it takes a craftsman to produce it. Therein lies the problem. If someone doesn't care about the shoe moulding in the living room not being coped at inside corners (which means they will open up), or they really like that Chinese-made buffet from Pottery Barn, you may have a problem getting them as a customer. If, on the other hand, they know there's a difference between mortise and tenon and pocket hole joinery AND know why one is better, you stand a much better chance. Now explain to the customer that they have to pay for something they will never see: (M&T joints) and materials that are far superior (furniture-grade plywood versus Home Depot plywood) - or better yet, solid wood. The Pottery Barn piece will sit in the dining room for 100 years with no problem and so will your custom piece. So why should I pay for better plywood, M&T joints, etc.? Be ready with a good answer, and if you find an answer that works really well, please share with all of us!

If you need to earn $100,000 annually, that equates to roughly $50/hour at a 40-hour week. The desk you are going to make could take a week to design, select materials and purchase, lay out and cut, make joinery cuts, assemble, sand/prep for finish, finish, and deliver. You are starting at $2000 + materials + wear-and-tear on machines (blades have to be resharpended and eventually replaced, bearings wear out, etc.). If you only need to make $50,000, that gets you to a $1000 starting point. You can see where I'm going with this.

In any case, I would be thrilled to know how this comes out. Would you be willing to keep track of the time you spend in each phase and report back here? Of course, we'd love to see your photos too.

Best wishes to you for a successful outcome - and many more!

 

[Willemjm]

I support myself completely doing this work and have for several years. Gave up an engineering career to do it. I love doing this - got tired of dealing with my peers in exec mgmt.
So far, I have not experienced anything that would "ruin a hobby" I think as BAS said. I have though, given away a great deal of my time in the form of eating underpriced work. About 20% of my customers pay what it's worth, about 40% cringe at the price and go with it anyway, and the balance I never see again.
Everyone appreciates "knowing" they are getting custom made, but very few realize what it takes a craftsman to produce it. Therein lies the problem. If someone doesn't care about the shoe moulding in the living room not being coped at inside corners (which means they will open up), or they really like that Chinese-made buffet from Pottery Barn, you may have a problem getting them as a customer. If, on the other hand, they know there's a difference between mortise and tenon and pocket hole joinery AND know why one is better, you stand a much better chance. Now explain to the customer that they have to pay for something they will never see: (M&T joints) and materials that are far superior (furniture-grade plywood versus Home Depot plywood) - or better yet, solid wood. The Pottery Barn piece will sit in the dining room for 100 years with no problem and so will your custom piece. So why should I pay for better plywood, M&T joints, etc.? Be ready with a good answer, and if you find an answer that works really well, please share with all of us!

If you need to earn $100,000 annually, that equates to roughly $50/hour at a 40-hour week. The desk you are going to make could take a week to design, select materials and purchase, lay out and cut, make joinery cuts, assemble, sand/prep for finish, finish, and deliver. You are starting at $2000 + materials + wear-and-tear on machines (blades have to be resharpended and eventually replaced, bearings wear out, etc.). If you only need to make $50,000, that gets you to a $1000 starting point. You can see where I'm going with this.

In any case, I would be thrilled to know how this comes out. Would you be willing to keep track of the time you spend in each phase and report back here? Of course, we'd love to see your photos too.

Best wishes to you for a successful outcome - and many more!

Very good post!!!
One day when I win the lottery, I will build commission full time, until I am broke again. Then I will go back to Engineering.

 

[Rick M]

I have made a few commission pieces for extra dough, it was interesting. On the last the customer freaked because I didn't build his cabinet "level". It took me an hour to explain the difference between square and level and that level depends on the floor.

 

[Willemjm]

I support myself completely doing this work and have for several years. Gave up an engineering career to do it. I love doing this - got tired of dealing with my peers in exec mgmt.
So far, I have not experienced anything that would "ruin a hobby" I think as BAS said. I have though, given away a great deal of my time in the form of eating underpriced work. About 20% of my customers pay what it's worth, about 40% cringe at the price and go with it anyway, and the balance I never see again.
Everyone appreciates "knowing" they are getting custom made, but very few realize what it takes a craftsman to produce it. Therein lies the problem. If someone doesn't care about the shoe moulding in the living room not being coped at inside corners (which means they will open up), or they really like that Chinese-made buffet from Pottery Barn, you may have a problem getting them as a customer. If, on the other hand, they know there's a difference between mortise and tenon and pocket hole joinery AND know why one is better, you stand a much better chance. Now explain to the customer that they have to pay for something they will never see: (M&T joints) and materials that are far superior (furniture-grade plywood versus Home Depot plywood) - or better yet, solid wood. The Pottery Barn piece will sit in the dining room for 100 years with no problem and so will your custom piece. So why should I pay for better plywood, M&T joints, etc.? Be ready with a good answer, and if you find an answer that works really well, please share with all of us!

If you need to earn $100,000 annually, that equates to roughly $50/hour at a 40-hour week. The desk you are going to make could take a week to design, select materials and purchase, lay out and cut, make joinery cuts, assemble, sand/prep for finish, finish, and deliver. You are starting at $2000 + materials + wear-and-tear on machines (blades have to be resharpended and eventually replaced, bearings wear out, etc.). If you only need to make $50,000, that gets you to a $1000 starting point. You can see where I'm going with this.

In any case, I would be thrilled to know how this comes out. Would you be willing to keep track of the time you spend in each phase and report back here? Of course, we'd love to see your photos too.

Best wishes to you for a successful outcome - and many more!

OK, lets see how this goes. 1 1/2 hours gone, first rendering done, had to do a bit of research on soft closing sliders, file drawer sizes and hardware, that slowed me down. Customer came back right away, we are going to shrink the size a bit put in 4 filing drawers two on each side with a door in the middle. This is going to spoil the symmetry a bit, any ideas? Budget 1/2 hour tonight to update the drawing. She is ready to deposit 30% of price, but I want to get the details right first, so there is no misunderstanding. After deposit, I will do a detailed parametric design, meaning she can look at this thing on computer, each part, 3D, from every angle. After that it is just cut to drawings size and slap together.

 

[Skymaster]

Just my humble opinion; At 30% you are wide open to get the wrong end of the stick. My setup is this; Deposit covers ALL material; The remainder is paid in construction stages so that when customer picks up or you deliver ONLY 10% or less is the final payment. Also, I know I am gonna get flack on this; when pricing your work try to set a price where you will have gotten what you can live with at the 80% mark, this way when your customer NOT IF when doesnt want to pay the last amount for a gazillion reasons you haven't heard yet, you can walk away mad but know you already got paid in full

 

[wdwrkr]

Skymaster - No flack from me. Everyone has a strategy, or should, for getting paid. There are plenty of people who willingly try to cheat others. I hear about them all the time - so far haven't found one in this business. Found PLENTY in my former business!

There's nothing wrong with protecting yourself. Best way is to start with a good contract, and get the customer to sign off on the drawings you are using to design the project - before you start work. Every variable that the client "selects" needs to be written and attached to the contract. Your worst nightmare begins with "Well, you said..." You don't have much of a case based on what was said.

I like the idea of only being exposed for 10%! That works.

Willemjm: It looks like a nice project. Don't be uncomfortable asking for more money when "requirements creep" or sometimes known as "scope creep" sets in. If they want more, they should pay more. I had a customer once who started at $9000 for a cabinet, and by the time we were through with changes it was $14500. It was kinda like buying a car. The base price is $25000, but with all the cool stuff you really want, it costs $37000. Car companies aren't afraid of asking and people buy cars everyday.

 

[Willemjm]

Revised rendering drawing and got the go ahead for the project.



Great replies to this thread, good to hear the different viewpoints. IMHO, there are many ways to do business and it is interesting that I find every state to have its own habits and culture. Being in the South (NC) has been a pleasant experience, but quite something to get used to. I designed my house and had it built, the builder was going to work off a notepad, so I had a detailed contract drawn up. It ended up in a drawer and we never looked at it again. We won house of the year award for Moore County. Good experience, as long as one does not expect accurate timelines and meeting deadlines. In contrast I did this in California, the contract was a book, attorneys involved and every change had to be recorded in writing.

For my work, I have done a few $60 million projects with various contractors and consultants involved and we always make sure both parties enter into a sound agreement with legal counsel involved. Over here in the South though, I think one can build a desk over a handshake, provided one is a good judge of character.

 

[Skymaster]

handshake and a 50% DEPOSIT :icon_thum:gar-La;

 

[DaveD]

Funny you should mention habits and cultures. When I moved here in 1975 you could still get a house built by multiple builders with not much more than a basic set of plans and a simple 1 page contract and a hand shake. Being a 'northerner' myself that was hard to digest. Lots of small businesses were that way. I was the recipient and giver of many handshake 'deals' in the 70's and 80's. not anymore.

Now, almost 40 years later it seems we can't trust anyone some days and there is a greater percentage of the population whose main goal in life seems to be how to get what they want with little regard as to the consequences to those around them. The challenge is to recognize these people/companies before you get dealing with them.