Harvey C300 table saw post install

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Got my saw all set up so I can list everything I noticed. Basically, I am very happy with it.
First the short "bad" list dealing with manufacturing.
T-Square fence was welded about 1/2 degree off. It is within adjustment, but I think it should have been better
Edges of the finger hole for the splitter were so sharp they could cut you. Easy filed fix.
Standard throat plate is warped too far to use. I will ask for a replacement.
Shipping: Little ding in the PB/Formica left table extension. Not sure how it happened as packaging was pretty good. I may or may not bother with it as I am going to use it for a swing up left extension.

Setup:
As with previous Harvey delivery, the driver and I rolled it to the top of the driveway. I then threw a chain around the pallet and just drug it up the gravel drive into my shop. Worked like a box scraper and took the crown off the drive. I have a 800 Lb hoist in my shop, so picking it up and putting my DIY frame under it was a piece of cake.
Table was dead on square to the blade.
No problem getting the wings in line. Flat as can be.
Fence took some fiddling, but I eventually got it in
90 degree stop was right on.
Instructions were poor, but then again, if you can't put it together, you probably should not be using one.

Design observations:
No stops on the fence ends to prevent you from sliding off the ends. Easy fix.
Dust port was on a nifty removeable plate, so when you drop your arbor nut, easy to recover. But, It was not designed for good airflow, not quite on the bottom of the tray and was 4 inch. I made my own from a bit pf plywood, set in a 6 inch blast gate.
Window for the fence rule was not a magnifier and is way above the scale, so parallax error. I will re-do.
Fence aluminum extrusion is not an even "inch " size so between upright and laying down, you can't just add/subtract from the fence scape easily. I am used to a fence where my jigs straddle the fence, so I wil probably just cut a bit of HDPE for each side and not use the extrusion.
Fence lock lever is very balky. The tab does not align well and it can take 3 or 4 tries to lock the fence. Not sure if this is a manufacturing or design fault. I am sure I can fix it. Just makes it not pleasant to use to have to fight it.
The blade guard is obviously a generic one and has provisions to add a vacuum port, but they do not have one and have not suggested what other brand names may use the guard and have one.
It does not have a lower blade shroud. As I don't have my ClearView yet, I can't comment on the airflow and dust collection capability.
Table inserts are pretty complex, so I will need to make a router gig for them. They want $60 for a ZCI. I guess trying to make some profit, but shooting themselves in the foot as priced too high.
You can sure tell the mass of the trunnion when cranking up vs. down. If I were designing it, I might put a counter weight on it to make it really sweet.

Cutting:
Put in my Diablo 60 tooth, and as expected, cuts like butter. It vibrates a little more than I expected. I think it is probably the belts ( 3 V-belts) I will most likely get three Gated cog belts and see how it goes. I don't know what to expect as my old saw used a smoother wide multi-groove belt.

Not really much to say. My comments on design do need to be taken into account as this is a very inexpensive saw for the class. If it was a PM-2000, PCS, or the more expensive 4HP line I would be more critical. The little issues and choices all I can fix/improve or just make to my liking. So, at this stage, I can highly recommend it. Plus it was in stock and the competing Griz were not!
 

Attachments

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
LOL, TVR I love your observations, they are critical to the "Nth"degree. Yeah, some of what you said I had heard before. I have used that saw before
isolator.JPG
it is a very nice saw. As to the vibration, couple of suggestions:

1. You can add vibration isolators to the underside of the table, something like the pix or any other that might help.

2. There is a 1/8-1/4"high density rubber mat we use on HVAC equip that when setting directly to the ground. It cancels vibration but can withstand 1,000lb point load. Actually it is kinda cheap. That also may be an option as well.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Had not thought about it, but I have some stable mats. 3/4 thick rubber. Curious the cabinet does not have drilled flanges at al four corners. Nothing I can't fix. An angle grinder and a welder, anything is possible! Where I need a mat is my Mitsubishi mini-split. Hug it on the side of the shop and it really needs good feet. Hydraulic maybe.

Your picture looks like a rubber foot. Can you link to or explain if it is something else?

Trying to provide actual information, not the typical on-line "expert" who just reads off the add copy and raves about advertised features.
 

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Tvr, The things I use are all engineered for the specific job.
Questions to think about:
How does the table and motor interact with regards to sound and vibration production. This requires looking at the machine while running andf possibly using a dial gauge in various locations while running to get a sense what the sound and vibration are doing/transferring through the machine. Most of this is subjective. Every Acoustical engineer I have interacted with are great with math, but short on solutions......... My guess is it will be trial n error for the most part. The cog belts are the best 1st step, but then the rest will be trying out different things. That foot isolator is about 2 bucks so it is cheap enough to see if it will any impact or not. If it does show promise, then I would go to a real engineered isolator and a pre-tensioned unit. Essentially these have been set to some form of compression stress (like a depressed spring), but it is done with rubber or a polymer composite.
On the Hospital HVAC systems those vibration isloator run use 1200-3k per unit, but they are big.

I am interested in this because Harvey is on my short list for my next saw this summer and I am curious on how to attach a bracket that will hold the isolators and whether if the effort equals the improvement from before to after.
That said, the specific issues I think to consider are the following:

1. Vibration dampening.
2. Sound transfer coefficient (STC)
3. Impact transfer coefficient (ITC)
4. Attachment considerations.

A ISO mat may be all you need so I would try that 1st. It will need to be high density enough to support 1 leg point load. E.G. if the machine is 500 lbs then 500 / 4 =125 x safety factor 1.3 = 162.5 min point load per sq inch
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Casey,
If you were local, I'd say drop buy.

I found several double threaded isolators with a range of loads so I can pick some for my HVAC. For the saw, the belts probably first. I have not even checked the tension or looked to see if position effects it. All the SOP for V-belts. Being brand new, they need to seat.
 

gritz

Robert
Senior User
I noticed that short radius 90 degree ell on the dust port. It is equivalent to 10 feet of pipe.
 

rcarmac

Robert
Corporate Member
Casey,
If you were local, I'd say drop buy.

I found several double threaded isolators with a range of loads so I can pick some for my HVAC. For the saw, the belts probably first. I have not even checked the tension or looked to see if position effects it. All the SOP for V-belts. Being brand new, they need to seat.
Where is local
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
I noticed that short radius 90 degree ell on the dust port. It is equivalent to 10 feet of pipe.
Yes it is. Once I get my DC and make measurements, I plan on cutting a hole in the back of the saw and move the port, eliminating a 2 elbows. It is a 6 inch though.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Today I fixed two of my little anal retentive issues:

I added a little bit of aluminum L to the right end of the front fence rail as a stop. Now when I "fling" the fence over it won't hit the floor.

Second, I took the fence latch apart. A quick bit of polishing, being careful not to remove much material on the cam, smoothed it out a bit. Then I stuffed a piece of foam in the flap slot to hold it towards the table so the magnet does not grab it and make it bind. I then replaced the metric fully threaded bolt with a 3/8 bolt that was not fully threaded so the cam has a round surface to work against. Smooth as silk. Supper actually. As shipped, it would have ticked me off to no end.

Lots of fussing getting the riving knife adjusted dead on. It is a bit thick IMHO even for a full kerf blade. As I now have 3 HP, going to convert back to full kerf blades. Criticism aside, having a real riving knife instead of too far away splitters I really like. I am glad I upgraded.

Decided I will use some sort of fence facing that is 3/4 inch, so that will let me stick on the scale in the right place. Gives me 1 3/4" more rip capacity. Even if I go 1/2 phenolic or something, I have the adjustment. Yea, new tapes are not expensive. Now I have a supply of really good rulers, when doing something really precise, it is pretty easy if I put on the OEM extrusion fence.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Todays task:
Table surface finish was very flat, just not very smooth. So step one was 120 grit belt sander. One light pass. Got the wings perfect. (They were plenty good enough)
Moving to 220 pad sander. Probably good enough. Not quite as smooth as the SawStop router wing, but as the edges are rounded, will be as slick as needed once a good coat of wax. I guess one could go further, but not any real point. Again, if I paid three times as much, I would have expected a finer finish. I can tell a big improvement in sliding work across it.

T-slots seem very consistent. Both the OEM miter guide and my Osborne I can snug down and are very even through the length. Probably better than my old Ridgid.

So on to making a router pattern for ZCIs. Besides the usual relief for the blade, it needs relief for the spindle bearing block as it is big and fat. Don't need two finger holes and probably won't even make the hole for the knife plunger access.

Waiting on router bits to finish the fence facings. Settled on 3/4 inch '"something" so I can put on the scale and work on a lower magnifying window.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Another fine tune:
I lowered the sight window. Actually, I sanded it flat as it was molded and a bit ripely, scribed in a new index line as it was only surface painted. Then buffed it out.
Next drilled for flat head #6 screws and made an adjustable stack from nuts to get it just a papers height off the scale. Being adjustable. if I change the fence height, or as the buttons wear, I can always tweak the window height. I did not put a magnifier on it as the one got is way too powerful. I'll see how it goes. It looks like I can interpolate 1/32 easy and probably by a 64th.
20210226_090545.jpg
20210226_090558.jpg
 

creasman

Jim
Corporate Member
You should send your feedback to the company. These are some good improvements/fixes they could incorporate into their design to make an even better product.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
I did send my first batch. I will update when I am satisfied. Some might be cheap. some would cost money. I suspect ( Hope) there is a reason that a Powermatic or Bailey costs a little more. For instance an additional total process to grind the table finer would be significant.

I set the scale so it will adjust to 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch fence face. Left side of hairline aligns with right side of mark.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Loving it. Still waiting on my ClearVIew DC, so can't continue with my ideas for dust, but as far as a saw, very happy. Put on the Amana 80 tooth full kerf. Ripped a 2 inch glue up of Baltic Birch like butter. Using a 3/4 MDF fence face. I like the Jesem rip guides and may consider a set of them. Made several ZCIs from 1/2 MDF with Formica on them.

My idea of the SawStop magnifiers won't work like I was thinking. I may put it in as a second layer and with two lines, eliminate any parallax. But I may just put on a Wixey anyway. The iGaung they sell for SawStop I actually like better as it does not have the extra lower rail, but the track goes down right where the normal scale goes.

As expected, Harvey replaced the warped insert and dinged side wing promptly.

Been busy still reconfiguring the shop. Put in the lathe, so had to shuffle around a lot of storage. Weather is going to turn bad, so that wil free me from yard work and trim painting for a few days. Got my new Shop-Fox end vise installed. Setup the Wolverine grinder tables, new shelf for my sharpening tool chest. On and on.
 

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