I've never really used hand planes but have been thinking about trying some. What would you guys recommend for a decent plane to smooth lumber out with that won't break the bank? Doesn't have to be great but probably have to buy something new ya never find any used around here.
hand planes
- Thread starter ShawnS
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It depends on how far you want to go.
If if you mean just smoothing boards after being jointed and machine planed then all you need is a #4 smoothing plane. This is the final operation and well worth getting the best possible plane. LeeValley Veritas are pretty good for the money if you insist on new.
Otherwise there are a couple guys on here who could refurbish and sell you an older Stanley for a lot less.
if you mean to take rough cut lumber to final finish with only hand planes then you need a set of at least three, a try plane which is a #4 or 5 and a jointer which is a #7 or 8 in addition to the #4.
once we know your intentions we can give you more information. And I'm sure others will have opposing view points.
If if you mean just smoothing boards after being jointed and machine planed then all you need is a #4 smoothing plane. This is the final operation and well worth getting the best possible plane. LeeValley Veritas are pretty good for the money if you insist on new.
Otherwise there are a couple guys on here who could refurbish and sell you an older Stanley for a lot less.
if you mean to take rough cut lumber to final finish with only hand planes then you need a set of at least three, a try plane which is a #4 or 5 and a jointer which is a #7 or 8 in addition to the #4.
once we know your intentions we can give you more information. And I'm sure others will have opposing view points.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=46294&cat=1,41182,41187&ap=1
there's a good place to start.
there's a good place to start.
I own and like this one: http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=51870&cat=1,41182,52515
Mike is spot on...Veritas makes some awesome tools. New in the box is a good way to go.
I went the opposite way. I searched out old planes...Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls, etc. I believe that learning how to restore and tune old tools gave me a better insight on how to use them. I'm sure it's a steeper learning curve but one I think was beneficial to me.
As a bonus...they are much cheaper. Also easy to find.
Te advantage of the bevel up plane is the ability to change the cutter angle either by buying additional irons or by regrinding the bevel of your one iron. By changing the bevel angle you can cut different types of grain.
That is a great option if you only want to own one plane with the addition of a couple extra blades.
That is a great option if you only want to own one plane with the addition of a couple extra blades.
Buying old planes is a great way to learn and a very inexpensive option. That is the way I went also. My most expensive bench plane was $40.
But it the OP mentioned he has not been able to find used planes in his area.
I also suggested buying from someone here that rebuilds old planes.
Sorry..missed that part.
You may already know this..if so please forgive me. I have never bought a tool in a place with the word "antique" in the name. I don't even frequent those type of shops. I think less "Antiques Roadshow" and more "Sanford and Son". Most I find are in junk shops...the worse it looks on the outside the better.
There is not a single plane in this picture that cost me more than $25 ...including tax. That includes the Bed Rock 605 1/2.
Good recommendations from all. Buy and/or refurbish is your call and there are merits to both ways.
Thought these might be of use to you.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/handplane-tune-up-tips.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYCGQz0wqTk
Thought these might be of use to you.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/handplane-tune-up-tips.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYCGQz0wqTk
I have a mixture of new and refurbished hand planes. I have a Veritas #5 low-angle Jack Plane that I use with a shooting board and a Very Expensive Lie Nelson #4 with high-angle frog for the tough finishing jobs, like figured wood or inconsistent grain direction. But the majority of my planes are refurbished Stanley's.
For the Stanley planes I think the Bailey's are the sweet spot in price/performance. The handyman's are too hard to adjust and the Bedrocks too expensive, but they are the high-end Stanley planes.
The wood river line has gotten decent reviews since the new line was introduced. The older, original line - not so much.
You can find old planes if you watch Craigs List or ebay or others. Try the Hillsville SuperFlea. Or contact Ed Lebetkin at the Woodwrights School. http://www.woodwrightschool.com/
Ed will sell you one that is already sharpened and tuned. But learning how to do this yourself is worth the time it takes to learn.
For the Stanley planes I think the Bailey's are the sweet spot in price/performance. The handyman's are too hard to adjust and the Bedrocks too expensive, but they are the high-end Stanley planes.
The wood river line has gotten decent reviews since the new line was introduced. The older, original line - not so much.
You can find old planes if you watch Craigs List or ebay or others. Try the Hillsville SuperFlea. Or contact Ed Lebetkin at the Woodwrights School. http://www.woodwrightschool.com/
Ed will sell you one that is already sharpened and tuned. But learning how to do this yourself is worth the time it takes to learn.
You can also keep an eye out for planes like Sargent which are good workers. Stanley also made planes for places like Sears and Montgomery Ward. They are a bit downscale in that the handle bolts might be steel rather than brass and the wood will be stained Beech rather than Rosewood. Also, you are not fighting as many collectors.
I checked the MWTCA (Mid West Tool Collecors Association) site and saw that they have a tool meet in Virgilina, Va on April 18. Don't know if that's close to you or not. I have bought some nice used tools includng refurbished planes at a fair price at MCTWA meets here in NC, and have found the people there very helpful with info. May be an option if you are looking used.
The other thing you may want to start getting smart on (if you are not already) is how to sharpen the blades. Whether a new Veritas or Lie-Nielson that is sharp out of the box, or a new Stanley, etc that needs major flattening and honing to remove the mill marks before it is even usable, it is a capability you will need if you want your plane to work well. The most inexpensive way to start is the "scary-sharp" method (many references on the web).
JMTCW
Go
The other thing you may want to start getting smart on (if you are not already) is how to sharpen the blades. Whether a new Veritas or Lie-Nielson that is sharp out of the box, or a new Stanley, etc that needs major flattening and honing to remove the mill marks before it is even usable, it is a capability you will need if you want your plane to work well. The most inexpensive way to start is the "scary-sharp" method (many references on the web).
JMTCW
Go
+1...... regardless of the brand it won't work if it ain't sharp!
I would go with a new plane if you can.
If your going to start with one plane, I would not get a smoothing plane. I would suggest a #5 or 6 as your first. A quality plane sharpened correctly and mouth closed down will give excellent results.
As you've read, If you don't mind spending several hours refurbishing, you can pick up an old stanley on EBay for $50 or so. Down side is you could have a plane with bad parts. If you upgrade the blade add another $70 at least. Bottom line, unless you find a flea market deal (never seen one yet), you can figure on having at least $100 invested with a blade upgrade. That doesn't include possibly hours of work flattening the sole and frog and repairs.
I recently bought a WoodRiver #6 when it was on sale for less than $150. I am very happy with it. Took a little work to flatten an hone the blade, though, but properly adjusted, I get a surface equal to my smoother.
You can tell the difference in quality tools, so don't go cheap if you can afford not to. IMO and experience is the time spent refurbishing and upgrading blades aren't worth it in the end.
I've learned its best to start with the best you can and don't limit yourself with a mediocre quality tool. I've made the mistake is getting an inferior tool and believing my skill level was low when actually it was the tool not working well. I recently experienced this with a Stanley plane. No matter what I did, I just could not get the tool to either stay adjusted or work to my standards. In the end, I think the frog bad, but I spend over 20 hours trying to get it to work. On the other hand I I have a very nice Record #4 with Veritas blade that is pretty nice, but the plane was pristine when I bought it
No to belabor it, but I will never refurbish another plane, so be careful before you venture forth.
For my money, check out WoodRiver.
Skip the smoother for now and go for a#6. You will have a little jointer ability as well as a shooting plane.
If your going to start with one plane, I would not get a smoothing plane. I would suggest a #5 or 6 as your first. A quality plane sharpened correctly and mouth closed down will give excellent results.
As you've read, If you don't mind spending several hours refurbishing, you can pick up an old stanley on EBay for $50 or so. Down side is you could have a plane with bad parts. If you upgrade the blade add another $70 at least. Bottom line, unless you find a flea market deal (never seen one yet), you can figure on having at least $100 invested with a blade upgrade. That doesn't include possibly hours of work flattening the sole and frog and repairs.
I recently bought a WoodRiver #6 when it was on sale for less than $150. I am very happy with it. Took a little work to flatten an hone the blade, though, but properly adjusted, I get a surface equal to my smoother.
You can tell the difference in quality tools, so don't go cheap if you can afford not to. IMO and experience is the time spent refurbishing and upgrading blades aren't worth it in the end.
I've learned its best to start with the best you can and don't limit yourself with a mediocre quality tool. I've made the mistake is getting an inferior tool and believing my skill level was low when actually it was the tool not working well. I recently experienced this with a Stanley plane. No matter what I did, I just could not get the tool to either stay adjusted or work to my standards. In the end, I think the frog bad, but I spend over 20 hours trying to get it to work. On the other hand I I have a very nice Record #4 with Veritas blade that is pretty nice, but the plane was pristine when I bought it
No to belabor it, but I will never refurbish another plane, so be careful before you venture forth.
For my money, check out WoodRiver.
Skip the smoother for now and go for a#6. You will have a little jointer ability as well as a shooting plane.
I have never spent more than one hour on a hand plane without either making nice thin shavings or determining that it is unrepairable.
I have no idea how anyone could possibly work on a plane for 20 hours. I mean really what could you possibly do for that long?
As I have said before I have never spent more than $40 for a bench plane and never more than one hour to get it in top working shape. Cosmetics aside.
For a complete overhaul with derusting, repainting, truing the sole, sharpening and adjusting maybe 3-4 hours. That is worst case for a completely rusted up mistreated and abused plane.
A #5 can function as a smoother, Chris Schwarz started with a #5 and switches the normal blade for a thicker Hock Blade. With two or three blades you can extend the range of work. His old Stanley blade is sharpened very convexed for rapid removal of material and the Hock is sharpened as a smother. The thickness of the Hock blade helps to close the mouth without resetting the frog with each blade.
For $150 you can get the three basic planes you need to work, with 2-3 hours of work, which you need to know for maintaining the planes anyway, you can have all three working well. With 5-10 minutes of regular maintenance you can keep them in top condition.
I have no idea how anyone could possibly work on a plane for 20 hours. I mean really what could you possibly do for that long?
As I have said before I have never spent more than $40 for a bench plane and never more than one hour to get it in top working shape. Cosmetics aside.
For a complete overhaul with derusting, repainting, truing the sole, sharpening and adjusting maybe 3-4 hours. That is worst case for a completely rusted up mistreated and abused plane.
A #5 can function as a smoother, Chris Schwarz started with a #5 and switches the normal blade for a thicker Hock Blade. With two or three blades you can extend the range of work. His old Stanley blade is sharpened very convexed for rapid removal of material and the Hock is sharpened as a smother. The thickness of the Hock blade helps to close the mouth without resetting the frog with each blade.
For $150 you can get the three basic planes you need to work, with 2-3 hours of work, which you need to know for maintaining the planes anyway, you can have all three working well. With 5-10 minutes of regular maintenance you can keep them in top condition.
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