Gum as a secondary wood?

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Keye

Keye
Corporate Member
Just found a source of kiln dry gum for $1.00 per bf. Will be used for drawer bottoms and backs. Also other secondary wood needs. This is a 20 minute drive.

Anything else is about $2.50 per bf when I add in fuel or shipping.

Anyone ever use gum and if so how did it work out?
 
J

jeff...

Just found a source of kiln dry gum for $1.00 per bf. Will be used for drawer bottoms and backs. Also other secondary wood needs. This is a 20 minute drive.

Anything else is about $2.50 per bf when I add in fuel or shipping.

Anyone ever use gum and if so how did it work out?

If you can find Black Gum it's also known as poor mans walnut - looks a lot like walnut expecially the heartwood.

How in the world someone could sell KD anything for 1.00 a BF is beyond me. Even with free trees there is still log hanling, milling, stacking, stickering, loading the kiln, operation of the kiln, unloading the kiln, unstacking, more handling and sales. Someone must be working for free and taking a big loss.

With the price of gas the way it is nowadays a big part of producing lumber is burned in the fuel tank (machines to handle logs and lumber and run the mill, then there is power to run the kiln, even a solar kiln needs fans.

Someone help me out here how does KD $1.00 a BF work, I'm confused?

Thanks
 

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
Jeff, I can't answer your question, but can offer this for perusal and cogitation. We purchase survey stakes that are made from poplar. I spoke with the gentlemen who deliver them and asked how much they paid for the wood. They told me, "Three fifty."

I thought, sheesh, $3.50/bf for poplar, that's rich.

Then they explained that they paid $350/thousand bf, which is $0.35/bf. This is KD, S4S poplar in 8' lengths. I bought some from them, offering twice their price, for secondary wood. The stake man's son-in-law runs a commercial kiln and makes good money selling the poplar to his father-in-law. Not a discounted thing.

It's sorta like this: You can buy a pair of reading glasses at Dollar Tree for (guess how much....yep) $1, but if you paid somebody to make the glass from sand, beat the metal out of ore, shape and grind the lenses, it would probably cost a tad more than $1.

I think we call this economy of scale.

And I'm about ready to drag out the gum I bought from you last spring to make some drawers. I'll let you know how it works.
 

Keye

Keye
Corporate Member
Jeff, this guy sells to the furniture industry. I go by his place on the way to the in-laws. Stopped in one day and he says he sells to guys like me just to be a good neighbor.

Steve Wall sells poplar for 1.80/ bf. With the volume this guy has, gum at 1.00/ bf may not be so unreal.

I will agree with you I do not understand how you can even get the wood to the mill for less than 1.00/bf.

Still have the question about the use of gum. Kind of reading between the lines I have the impression it will meet my needs.
 

jlwest

Jeff
Corporate Member
Gum can be compared to poplar and is often confused with it. I had two 2' diameter trees come down a couple of years ago during a strorm , shallow roots, and had a portable mill brought to have it all planked and stickered it in my garage. Probably ended up with about 1000' bdft. It was all dry within a year but has a tenadacity to twist. It is a soft wood so only useful for non-wear points. The grain and pattern is relatively plain so it is also good to paint. I'm just finishing up the last of it, finally.
 

DaveO

New User
DaveO
I've seen some desks in school held together with gum...it seemed to be very sturdy

:slap: me


:lol::lol::lol:


Dave:)
 
J

jeff...

I typed up a few repsonses to this thread but deleted them before pusing
the submit reply button :-D

I do have one question on that .35 a BF KD S4S Poplar. I wonder how much the land owner was paid for stumpage? Short of getting them out of the woods, transportation, handling, sawing, kiln drying, surfacing and storage. There doesn't seem like much left over for the land owner.

It's things like this really make me scratch my head and wonder.

Thanks
 

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
Jeff, I feel the same way :eusa_thin :eusa_thin about those dollar reading glasses. And the three pair of gloves for $1.49 at HF. And the 1/2" X 12' measuring tape for $0.99, also at HF. How can you sell glasses, 2 pair of gloves and a measuring tape for $2.98 and make a profit? I just don't know.
 

Oakwood

New User
John
Gum can be a good choice for secondary wood with some reservations. Gum is prone to twist and warp and is known to be moisture sensitive. It will expnad and contract with varying relative humidy so you will need to provide for this movement in your construction. I would be careful and let the Gum to sit awhile in your shop to come to equilibrium before you use it.

John B.
Oakwood
 

junquecol

Bruce
Senior User
Gum can be compared to poplar and is often confused with it. I had two 2' diameter trees come down a couple of years ago during a strorm , shallow roots, and had a portable mill brought to have it all planked and stickered it in my garage. Probably ended up with about 1000' bdft. It was all dry within a year but has a tenadacity to twist. It is a soft wood so only useful for non-wear points. The grain and pattern is relatively plain so it is also good to paint. I'm just finishing up the last of it, finally.
Black gum is used to make rollers for moving machinery. It won't scar the floor. Most riggers/ millwrights have a bunch of gum rollers.
 
J

jeff...

Jeff, I feel the same way :eusa_thin :eusa_thin about those dollar reading glasses. And the three pair of gloves for $1.49 at HF. And the 1/2" X 12' measuring tape for $0.99, also at HF. How can you sell glasses, 2 pair of gloves and a measuring tape for $2.98 and make a profit? I just don't know.


Jim, I just can't let this go - been thinking about that .35 a BF S4S KD Poplar and trying for the life of me how that works. It's been a while since I've priced poplar and granted I don't know what the going rate is for FOB to the mill, but I can say that stumpage for poplar saw logs is 140~200 a MBF. Stumpage is what the land owner gets paid for his standing trees. So lets low ball this and say .14 a BF goes to the land owner right off the top. That leaves .21 to cut the tree, skid it out of the woods, buck it, load it on a truck, deliver it the mill, unloaded it from the truck, loaded it on the sawmill, saw it into boards, stack it on sticks, kiln dry it, surface all four of it's sides, store it and sell it. My math just ain't adding up over here, even my Granville County math ain't working. I don't doubt what you saying at all, it's I just can't for the life of me figure out how a guy could do all that for .21 a BF and not loose his shirt in the process.

Maybe this is one of those mysteries I'll never be able to solve...

Thanks
 

MikeL

Michael
Corporate Member
After reading this post, I decided to contact a coworker to see if he could lend any info. He is trying to get wood product manufacturers here in NC to make use of underutilized species (Beech, Tupilo, Wormy Maple, Sweet Gum, etc.) that can save them $$$. I can't explain how they make it selling this stuff so cheap considering all of the energy that goes into producing the lumber, but I do know that it has something to do with the way that they purchase the wood from a landowner (again we're talking big producers). They do take a loss on this stuff, but in the end they must be doing something right. :eusa_thin


Below is Harry's response on species characteristics:

Black gum/tupelo and sweet gum are two of the lesser species that offers
opportunity when properly sawmilled and dried for economy in woodworking.
Both woods now are mainly sent to the pallet mills.

Black gum and tupelo are considered the same wood in the industry. Tupelo
grows in the southern swamps while black gum is its upland cousin. Both
are medium density diffuse hardwoods. Both have interlocking grain and
are difficult to dry.

To dry these woods properly one should use sticks one foot apart, pack
only one length of lumber to a pack (do not mix 10' with 11' or 12',
etc.), use pack pile supports every 2' (boolsters), dry these woods in a
dry kiln directly from the sawmill green and place heavy weights on top of
the pack.

When trying to use these woods for cabinets and furniture, be aware about
10% may warp beyond use for medium and long lengths. Warped boards can be
cut into short lengths for short parts, then face planed to square up.
Good drying practices as mentioned can eliminate warp below 10%.

The gums are capable to be used in exterior applications in furniture and
cabinets. Both woods have a range of wood color that can be matched to a
user's needs. The gums were heavily used in turnings for chairs and lower
priced furniture as they can be stained in a wide variety of colors and
show little grain that would conflict with more expensive species.

Tupelo/black gum has a cream to white colored sapwood with an off white
heartwood. Sweet gum has a light tan colored sapwood and a range of
heartwood from brown to red. Sweet gum can act as a substitute of cherry
and when green, the sapwood can be steamed and will turn a slight cherry
color. Both woods often have worm holes with flags from ambrosia beetles.

Since both woods are somewhat soft, one has to be careful applying stains
directly as they soak in quick. It may be better to tint a coat of sealer
that will give a good even color and is much easier to apply than a stain.

Both woods can be finished in a natural finish or stained with care. Be
sure to work out your finishing on scrap wood ahead of time.

Best of luck!

Harry Watt
NCSU Wood Products Extension


Harry is a consultant to wood products manufacturers. He is out of Statesville, NC and has a wealth of knowledge and contacts. Just thought I'd throw this out there for anyone interested.

Mike
 

MikeL

Michael
Corporate Member
Just a follow-up on the business side of things from my coworker Harry:

Since our hardwood stands are mixed with lots of species, the low value ones like gum if not cut would make the stand poorer in the long run. The timber sale includes the high and low value species, so everyone figures that to cut it all makes the most sense for the landowner and the logger. The buyer discounts the low value timber in price but it still creates sales $ for the logger and the landowner. The mill is not as interested in the low value species and tends to let them stain and spoil by not cutting promptly.

Sad story all around.
 
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