GROZ Hand Planes??

[bluthart]

I noticed Woodcraft has this brand of hand planes on clearance. They are very inexpensive, but are they worth it? I am an amatuer woodworker but I could get a decent collection cheap with these. Let me know if anyone has any experience with these. I have a Worksharp so I can put a good edge on them. Thanks for any input!

 

[Mike Davis]

They can be made to work, whether it is worth the work you have to put into it is up to you. The blade is one element, but the casting is rough, the frog doesn't seat well and everything needs a little filing and finishing. We did one at the last workshop and it took about two hours to get it working. I can usually do an old Stanley in 15 - 30 minutes and they work better when done.

 

[fsdogwood]

They can be made to work, whether it is worth the work you have to put into it is up to you. The blade is one element, but the casting is rough, the frog doesn't seat well and everything needs a little filing and finishing. We did one at the last workshop and it took about two hours to get it working. I can usually do an old Stanley in 15 - 30 minutes and they work better when done.

If the #5 is cheap enough, then it can be used, with some sharpening, given
that you are using the #5 as the #5 (i.e., not the last smoothing plane).

For #4 and/or #7, I would get an old Stanley, or the woodriver, or LV/LN.

Regards.

Pinwu

 

[FredP]

I have a bunch of old planes that I just got cleaned up that I can pert with reasonable. they still need some fine tuning but are making shavings now. shoot me a pm. they are not all stanleys but they seem to be made as well as stanleys. got a range of sizes to choose from. blocks 4's 3's 5's and a large old wooden smoother. I worked a little more on some a little less on others....:gar-Bi

 

[SeanStuart]

I bought the #5 for $19 plus shipping.

It is a new plane. So it needs a bit more tuning than a plane that is used regularly and taken care of. So in my opinion those that put it down because it takes longer to tune than a well used and cared for Stanley are not comparing apples to apples. What better way to learn about hand planes than to buy a new one and have to clean, tune and use it. Yes, you can get a Stanley on e-bay for $30 that will work as well, and possibly be more enjoyable to use. I am no kind of expert, but I think the Groz is a good deal at that price, if you want a new useable plane. I enjoyed making it a smooth working tool.

The issues: The rear handle was not flush to the body and needed to be sanded. The blade took about 40 minutes to hand sharpen to a very nice edge. The throat is not very smooth; I am probably not going to do too much about that now. The body is pretty flat, but once again it is new, and needed a bit of conditioning. The depth adjustment lever is not very well built, but works.

Overall, I wouldn't plan on building a set or collection out of them. I would compare them to a B&D tool. It will get the job done if you are patient. But it would be so much nicer to have a ______ . If you can justify the price.

 

[fsdogwood]

#5 is (or will be) used for the rough planing, not for the final smoothing.
Given the above, all you need to do would be to sharpen the blade, and as you
mentioned, sand the handle

Regards.

Pinwu

 

[Larry Rose]

They can be made to work, whether it is worth the work you have to put into it is up to you. The blade is one element, but the casting is rough, the frog doesn't seat well and everything needs a little filing and finishing. We did one at the last workshop and it took about two hours to get it working. I can usually do an old Stanley in 15 - 30 minutes and they work better when done.

Ditto

 

[kommon_sense]

I'm a noob when it comes to planes, but I decided to try the groz low angle block plane and #4 a few months ago since they were on clearance. I figured that it would be a good learning experience. I've learned a decent amount because these planes are no good straight from the factory. Frogs that don't sit square, cap irons that don't seat properly on the blade, etc. Also, the iron is pretty low quality. You will probably need to replace it with a hock iron. However the good thing about going the hock route is that if you hate the groz, you can reuse the hock on a stanley.

The plane will need a complete tune-up before you can do anything useful with it. With all of that said, there are quite a few people out there who have done the work and are quite satisfied with the results.

 

[Mike Davis]

So consider the Groz to be more of a plane kit than a ready to go plane. :rotflm:

 

[KenOfCary]

Personally I wouldn't waste my time on a Groz at any price, but that's just me. I have a bunch of Stanley's and some off brands that work well after minimal tune-up. The Groz is just poorly manufactured and sloppy. Life's too short to have to deal with something that inferior. YMMV.

- Ken.

 

[JasonYoung]

I started with a piece of junk like the Groz, it didn't work well and I had no idea why (being a hand plane noob).

In all, I probably spent 100-200 hours trying to figure out what was wrong with that stupid plane (and it never did work well). If I had spent that 100+ hours working minimum wage, after taxes - I could have bought every plane you need for basic work from Lie-Nielson and still have money left over for a nice chisel or two.

Do this instead. Buy a decent tool, one of the newer Stanley planes are pretty good. They cost more than vintage, and they cost more than Groz. But they will at least work out of the box. If you regret the Stanley purchase, I guarantee you would have regretted the Groz even more.

 

[Woodman2k]

Brian,
I bought both the 4 and 5 based on the clearance price figuring How Bad can they be? Well now I know and would tell you to buy something off of ebay or locally. They are a major project and I would rather spend my shop time working on Woodworking projects. I buy old planes all the time and have gone through the full ritual of tuneing them to my liking and these are a little beyond that. I think your money would be better spent on a real hand plane that when rebuilt would be a joy to use. I changed the 4 to a hock blade and that should help but the surface finish on both of them is pathetic. Good luck on your choice.
Greg

 

[Mike Davis]

I wish somebody would tell me what they really think. :dontknow:

.

.

.

... :rotflm:

 

[Mike Davis]

So in my opinion those that put it down because it takes longer to tune than a well used and cared for Stanley are not comparing apples to apples. What better way to learn about hand planes than to buy a new one and have to clean, tune and use it.

A new tool should work out of the box, I don't expect it to work well but it should work.

I have seen a couple LN and Veritas planes and they even needed final tuning to work perfect. But these Groz planes don't work. It is not that it takes longer to tune, we actually had to grind and file parts that should be machined in the factory. A rough casting is NOT a mating surface. No, we are not comparing apples to apples. We are comparing apples to rotton apple cores.

A better way to learn about hand planes is to use one that works properly. If you never have used a smoothly adjusting, smooth cutting and easy working plane then you have no idea what to shoot for, you don't know what you are trying to achieve and you will never get there without dumb luck.

A better way to learn is to have a good tool to start with and to have someone who can show you what is good about it and what needs to be done to make it better. A better way to learn is to learn from someone who has been there, done that and can take you from zero to shaving .001 thick curls in a day of fun and hard work. A better way is to own a tool that works great not one that has to be remanufactured just to sorta work.

Sorry if I insulted anyone, that is not my intent. I want everyone to enjoy doing the best they can do.

 

[SeanStuart]

I think you're right Mike that sounds like the ideal recipe. But sometimes in real life there is a gap between the ideal and what works. It doesn't mean we should stop striving for the ideal, just that sometimes there are a few steps involved.


"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift"
-Steve Prefontaine

 

[shopsmithtom]

Given the overall tone of the comments here and in other places on the web, it would seem to be a waste of both time & money (even if they're cheap) to mess with these planes. I've looked them over & the quality is bad enough to make you wonder why any self respecting woodworking retailer would sell them, cheap or not.
Yes, if you spend enough time, you can make them usable, but what's your time worth. As many have said, an old Stanley (or Millers Falls) can be had at a reasonable price & with very little tuning...hence more time for woodworking, be a joy to use.
I have about 20 planes of different sizes & uses in my shop. They're all either Stanley or Millers falls planes. (no, I'm not a collector, he denied vehemently) None were very expensive & they all work great.

 

[bwat]

Here are a couple of articles that briefly identify the Chinese and Indian import models.

 

[bwat]

The 2 part artice is in the American Woodworker Magazine website. Link is somehow pulling my email, sorry.
Tech challenged...Bill

 

[Roy G]

I think you would be better off spending the money on a higher-quality plane. My experience was with a Stanley I bought at K-mart that always did terrible work, but I didn't know any better and put up with it. Then I bought a Craftsman that did much better. I don't know who made the Craftsman but it was a much better tool. Put a Hock blade in it and it really makes the shavings. I took the Stanley apart for some reason and found the place the frog seats on the body had never been machined. It was just the rough casting. So make sure the Stanley you buy is not the economy line, like I got. But I agree with everybody who says spend your time in the shop doing wooodworking and not tuning up marginal hand planes.

Roy G

 

[kommon_sense]

I went by the lie nielsen tool event at ncsu today. After seeing the lie nielsen's, I can see how much of a toy the groz planes are. Of course you can't compare a $300+ plane to a $40 plane, but I'd have to say that I'd much rather save my money for something better than a groz.

p.s. Anyone want to buy a low angle groz block plane and groz #4 plane. They are in like new condition