Gas springs or option

[newshopcharlie]

I built my shop into a hill and it is two stories. The lower level is a garage for lumber storage and misc. stuff. I enter my shop by going out the back door and straight into the shop as the upper level is at ground height. It's perfect for my situation. Here's my problem. I built stairs between the levels and a trap door for access. The shop is heated, the lower level is not. The trap door weighs 114 lbs. and is 41"x 101". It is hinged at the 41" end. My plan was to install gas springs to ease the lift, but the company engineer that I have been dealing with said that it was too long and heavy for their product. This is not my area of expertise, but I figure there has to be a solution. There must be a lift mechanism for this application. If anyone has experience or any ideas for me, I would love to hear from you. I really don't want to have to design a counterweight system, as it would take up valuable room. Thanks for reading my ramblings. Charlie

 

[Wilsoncb]

Is there any way to make the trap door lighter? Maybe a picture would help understand the situation.

 

[mighty_fine_sawdust]

Anything here sound like it might work for you? https://www.diychatroom.com/threads/lift-assist-for-large-trap-door.727483/

 

[Henry W]

A variety of pre-fabbed access door/ladders are made, with built in retraction systems. I have installed several for residential usage, and one commercial one (at a church). The commecial one was not cheap, but is built to a decent standard. I can get the brand name if you want it - I sourced it through Capitol City Lumber in Raleigh. This unit did have the ladder protrude past the opening in the upper chamber - so that may be a factor for your upper level shop. I guess my point is that there are options commercially available as integrated units.

Retrofitting a lift mechanism to an existing ladder/access door seems like an unlikely route to success. Fitting a commerical unit to your opening seems like a far more likely route - though it likely won't be cheaper.

And apologies for not actually addressing your question - just broadening the question (without you asking me to)

 

[tvrgeek]

I have use a counter-weight and pulley system for a similar problem but yea, it might take up space but with cables, you can route that space about anywhere.
As far as the engineer comment, weight is of course relevant, but long is a matter of geometry. I can guarantee a lot of SUV hatches weigh more than your trap door.
Most attic stairs use simple springs. One could use linear motors, modify a garage door opener ( I used one as a TV lift in my old house). Even a cheap reversible electric drill, axle, and cable could work.

 

[mighty_fine_sawdust]

here's one more but I'm assuming you've already done the same internet search. Trap door hardware?? - Fine Homebuilding

 

[Henry W]

EDIT - THis was answering a question the OP did not ask - End EDIT

Here's a Werner aluminum unit at Lowe's the fits into your opening size, and works from 8-10 feet - first thing that came up in my Google search.
Lowe's Werner Attic ladder
Of course if you want the pitch of stairs rather than a ladder, that changes things.

 

[newshopcharlie]

The stairs that I built have 3" thick white pine stringers and 2.5" thick Douglas fir treads that are mortised 1/2" into the stringers. They're not something that I would part with. The door is substantial as it can be walked on and is really part of the floor. The skin is T&G pine, glued, screwed and plugged with 3 coats of mat finish. I have put a lot of work into this and would hate to have it look any different. This is a new building and it's the dream shop I have been wanting for a long time, but have been busy framing and trimming houses for 35 years and this is my retirement dream. I'm now going to look through all of the much-appreciated responses , but I thought that I would give some clarification first. Thank you to all ! Please keep the wheels turning ! Charlie

 

[Henry W]

The stairs that I built have 3" thick white pine stringers and 2.5" thick Douglas fir treads that are mortised 1/2" into the stringers. They're not something that I would part with. The door is substantial as it can be walked on and is really part of the floor. The skin is T&G pine, glued, screwed and plugged with 3 coats of mat finish. I have put a lot of work into this and would hate to have it look any different. This is a new building and it's the dream shop I have been wanting for a long time, but have been busy framing and trimming houses for 35 years and this is my retirement dream. I'm now going to look through all of the much-appreciated responses , but I thought that I would give some clarification first. Thank you to all ! Please keep the wheels turning ! Charlie

Sounds like a great shop and a great set up. I understand the specifications better now, that helps.
I won't share pics of certified messy shop, but it is my refuge and a fun place to work and create. Any shop pics available?

Seems like you could wire counterweights (almost?) entirely into the lower garage portion - following on Scott's "it might take up space but with cables, you can route that space about anywhere". Is that is possible?

 

[newshopcharlie]

Counterweights are an option, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. It just seems to me that there should be a device that can handle this. I'll keep searching for now. Again, thank you all for your attention. I'm going to try to load some pictures, but it's not my strong suit.

Also, I can't really encroach on the lower level as any weights would be hovering over the one rise landing at the bottom. I do have about 4' at the hinged end in the shop, but I hate to lose that space, as it is a perfect spot for my rolling scaffold. Charlie

 

[Wilsoncb]

Those steps sound awesome, I can see why changing them is not an option. I’ve used gas shocks on steel doors for utility bodies but never needed anything that strong. I can tell you the mounting brackets are just as critical as the strength of the springs. They do make them up to 250 lbs and you might need that much depending on how much weight is cantilevered past the mounting/lift point. Take a look at McMaster Carr. McMaster-Carr

If you are willing to look at using some power assistance, a winch would be fairly simple. My BIL used a small winch for a big trap door he has over an oil change pit in his garage. It is a slow option, but in his case he doesn’t open and close it that often.

Something like this: 2500 lb. ATV/Utility Winch with Wire Rope and Wireless Remote Control

If you need something faster I would look at a linear actuator mounted similar to the gas shock idea.

 

[newshopcharlie]

Thank you so much for your input. I will reach out to McMaster-Carr. I'm also talking with another company. I'll keep you posted.

 

[DSWalker]

Would a trailer gate lift assist help? They are pretty low profile, but could be a trip hazard depending on your setup.

GORILLA-LIFT® 2-Sided Tailgate Lift Assist | Gorilla-Lift

gorilla-lift.com

 

[newshopcharlie]

Yes it would be a trip hazard, but I appreciate your input . Thank you. People weighing in is of great value. You never know what idea or combination of ideas will produce a solution.

 

[junquecol]

$59.99 HF 12V winch, and some pulleys on a jack shaft could be used to lift door. You would need a 12V battery to operate it, along with a cheapie maintainer for battery.

 

[Ted P]

I gather you are hinging on the narrow side/end and need to lift the significant off set weight. Could you slightly reconfigure and hinge on the long side of the hatch? You would end up with a single gas shock, but the much shorter distance to center mass might more than make up for that.
Another alternative that comes to mind is to use a long stroke air cylinder that is powered by your air compressor. Downside of course is that it is not self contained