flame box elder door

[ShawnS]

I've been looking at lumber pics and I want to build a bed room door out of something with the look of flame box elder. Anyone ever tried a project like this? Any ideas would be appreciated. I have build a couple doors from oak and pine before so have a general idea.Also anyone know of a decent place to get the lumber for this? 4/4 would be what I would want and I will need enough to build it double layered. Somewhere in western NC would be idea for me to go pick up the lumber. If anyone has any extra lumber I would be willing to buy or trade some wood to it. I have a couple of large pieces of oak and at least one large piece of walnut that would be good for turning. I also have quite a bit of oak, poplar, and walnut lumber I could trade.
Thanks for any help

 

[CrealBilly]

Box elder is a really soft maple species no softer than pine though. I searched high and low for box elder when I lived in NC. Everyone I found was to small to mill or eaten up with powder post Beatles and no good but for firewood. You may have a hard time finding any locally in NC your best bet would be to look at lumber yards up north.

 

[ShawnS]

Thanks I know it won't be cheap but anyone know of anywhere I can buy the lumber? I'm willing to drive some to pick it up if need be, Winston salem or Asheville areas that have a decent lumber supplier?

 

[JonB]

Being from Wisconsin I saw a lot of Box Elder, it's a garbage tree there, not even worth burning because it's too soft. Most saw mills won't bother with it although you can sometimes get turning blocks. I've turned it but don't know anybody who did any flat work with it. One thing you should know is that the "flame" red color will not stay red, over time it will turn a muddy brown depending on how much UV light it gets.

 

[CrealBilly]

Being from Wisconsin I saw a lot of Box Elder, it's a garbage tree there, not even worth burning because it's too soft. Most saw mills won't bother with it although you can sometimes get turning blocks. I've turned it but don't know anybody who did any flat work with it. One thing you should know is that the "flame" red color will not stay red, over time it will turn a muddy brown depending on how much UV light it gets.

I made a couple of electric bass guitars with BE that I cut here in southern IL - so now you know someone who has done flatwork with BE It's actually a joy to work with, once jointed - it just lays there with little to no movment at all. as I mentioned before it is soft so router bit will burn it easy. lower the router speed way slower than you would think and you'll be ok though.

 

[cyclopentadiene]

I would try Asheville Hardware. I have seen natural edge slabs of Box Elder there in the past. They have the lumber on their web site but i am not sure how much it is kept up to date. The material there previously was 8/4 and kiln dried to avoid the powder post issue. They were highly figured. Also note, the red color in Box elder disappears with exposure to UV light. It may be prtty today and just be a piece of white wood with darker portions in a few years unless you use a UV resistent finish or recolor with a colorfast transtint red dye.

Caution, it is very expensive (i.e. $10-12 per bf, slabs were $800-1000 range each as I recall)

 

[KenOfCary]

I'm not much help here. The only box elder I've seen is small 1/8 to 1/4" thick pieces sold by one of the vendors at the Klingspor Extravaganza. It was so pretty that I bought some. Still haven't decided what to do with it though. Will make a nice keepsake box or something someday.

 

[ShawnS]

Thanks for all the input guys, I know a few people in Michigan would it be easier to get there? If so then normally come to visit some of their family here I may see if I can get them to bring me some down

 

[cyclopentadiene]

The Asheville hardware site has some box elder slabs listed. They appear to be about 4' long 12-18" wide and 8/4 for $75-300 each. The site indicates they are surfaced. I have purchased walnut,oak and sycamore slabs from them and was very pleased. Asheville is also a nice place to visit, great food and lots of galleries with woodworking items. Well worth the trip.

 

[Jeff]

That sounds like an exercise in futility. Rarely found in dimensioned lumber because it's usually trash wood. The "flame" fades quite a bit so it goes downhill over time.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/box-elder/

 

[CrealBilly]

That sounds like an exercise in futility. Rarely found in dimensioned lumber because it's usually trash wood. The "flame" fades quite a bit so it goes downhill over time.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/box-elder/

Did you see this picture in the link you provided?

Box elder has all the great qualities that musical instrument should have. So do you still have the same opinion of box elder now?

 

[ShawnS]

I'm not sure what I think anymore. I love the look but with some things I've read here and the trouble getting it I'm not sure its worth the trouble, may just look around to see what else I can find to get a dramatic look for the door.

 

[CrealBilly]

I'm not sure what I think anymore. I love the look but with some things I've read here and the trouble getting it I'm not sure its worth the trouble, may just look around to see what else I can find to get a dramatic look for the door.

I try and not let others steer me away from a direction I want to take. I like to experiment on my own. When i do sometimes i find crap, other times a diamond in the tough. After all many people told me I was foolish for quarter sawing sycamore. Remember the old saying... One mans trash is another mans treasure.

 

[Jeff]

Not trying to dissuade Shawn from trying it if he can find enough lumber for his door. I agree, give it a try and don't look back.

So do you still have the same opinion of box elder now?

Yes, but that's not based on personal experience. It appears that the fading color results from uv exposure over time. Flame box elder got a colorfast rating of 2/5 and "much of the color fades to brown".

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/preventing-color-changes-in-exotic-woods/

There's a mixed bag of opinions on other WW sites so browse around those for examples. I couldn't find fail-safe specific ways to stabilize the color.

No doubt that it's vivid wood early in its life cycle.

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/box elder.htm

 

[JonB]

What this boils down to is you are the artist, you can do as you wish. I've seen enough Box Elder and turned plenty of it (see the bowl attached) to know what you're going to be dealing with. It's a soft wood, it will dent easily and it also stinks when you machine it (smells like vomit to me) and the color won't last. There is a saying in the turning world, life's too short to turn crappy wood, I would say that this applies to flat work too. There are so many other species that look better, smell better and and machine better. This is, of course, my opinion and as I said earlier, you're the artist.

 

[ShawnS]

I don't consider myself an artist by any means, just a guy that's to cheap to buy the things I want haha. I'd rather have something I build and know how well or not well its made. I'm doing most of my wood working on a house i'm redoing for myself and just trying to avoid having the box store look without breaking my bank account. I'm slowing redoing it as funds allow. This site has been a lot of help so thank you guys for that. Any ideas on other wood I could use to build a door and will have some great character without driving myself crazy on it?

 

[cyclopentadiene]

Just my thoughts but... I have built a few furniture pieces that were commissioned. Each of these were from photos and wood selections made by the client. These projects took twice as long to complete and I stressed over therojects more than any others I have ever completed. I have realized that his was because it was not my style and my heart was not in it! I do this because I enjoy it, not for the money so I decided that from now on I will only build things I enjoy. If I complete the project and do not like the finished product or more importantly if my wife does not like it I either sell it or donate it to a charity for their benefit.

I beleve you should build what you like. If you want a door made of box elder, build it, enjoy the process, enjoy the finished product etc. You can preserve the color by either using a transient red dye painted over the cooled sections (the color of the red with a little stain can match the color very well). You also have the option to finish the door with a finish with uv protectant. This will hold the natural color for many years. If you use a hard finish on the surface coat, it will not be as soft. Also it will still be harder than most of the hollow core doors with a thin mdf surface. In addition if you spend a lot of time on the design details, the door will always be beautiful.
Build it because you love it. Worst case if after a few years you are unhappy, you can build another one and use the current for firewood. worst case, you have several hours invested, $200-300 in lumber invested that you can repurpose and the enjoyment of building what you like.

In 2013 I purchased a quarter sawn sycamore slab with the intention of building a maloof low back settee with a natural edge. After about 75 Hours, I had a piece sanded and ready for finish. Aesthetically, I did not like the piece. I took it in the house for my wife's opinion and her exact words were "it's ugly". I went back to the shop with the thoughts I could cut the upper section of the legs, the arms and back rest off with the thoughts it could be a coffee table. That did not work either. I did not give up, I turned 22 spindles, cut a crest rail and made the piece into a Nakashima style bench. I finished the piece. My wife still did not like it primarily as it was not her taste. It did win best in show at the 2013 NC State fair so someone liked it. I placed it in a gallery and sold the piece for $1800. I had $150 invested and about 200 hours so after commissions made less than minimum wage but I enjoyed the challenge, won a ribbon at state fair and used the cash yo buy more lumber for another project. I grew more as a woodworker and as an artisan with this project than with any other project I have done. Overall I would do it again but will never build a comission of someone else's vision!

this is my 2 cents

 

[Jeff]

I like your perspective. Here's a similar one and I'm quoting our own FredP from another thread.


I've done that on paying projects. [sort of] customer says I want this. I look at the picture, get the overall dimensions and build it my way anyways. never had a customer complain. I let them know up front that I will use my own judgement and it wont look exactly like the picture. I hate doing replicas. most of what I do is one off with few exceptions. obviously a pair of end tables, set of cabinets ect... will be matching but that set won't be duplicated by me for another customer. similar maybe but not duplicated.