DC piping?

[Splinter]

If a person was building a new WW'ing shop that was going to have a concrete floor (raised floor not a good option for other reasons) other than the obvious problem of future equipment relocations, is it a BAD idea to place the DC piping under the concrete? Assuming careful planning has taken place on equipment locations and some extra ports are included in the layout.

Also what naterial should be used....PVC, S&D, etc. ?

 

[JimmyC]

If a person was building a new WW'ing shop that was going to have a concrete floor (raised floor not a good option for other reasons) other than the obvious problem of future equipment relocations, is it a BAD idea to place the DC piping under the concrete? Assuming careful planning has taken place on equipment locations and some extra ports are included in the layout.

Also what naterial should be used....PVC, S&D, etc. ?

Dolan,

I think it would be GOOD to plan for DC under a slab, You would be restricting your positioning in the future, But by with planning I would definitely do it. I have a pole barn building (came with the house) with a slab and I wish there were floor ports for my TS, Planer, and Jointer. Everything else I like to keep mobile anyway. For under slab I would use PVC sch.40. You might want to check out Toms (toolferone) website
http://www.dreamshopwoodworks.com/
and see how he did it, it was a nice job:icon_thum.

Jimmy

 

[FredP]

It can be done however it would be paramount to plan. I have rearanged my shop several times since it was built and although i thought about doing this i am glad i didnt. also you want to concider some extra ports for added tools lster on and some cleanouts just incase you get a clog in the pipeing. S&D would prolly be ok but for under a slab i think i would use scedual 40. you dont want pipes to colapse years down the road.:icon_thum I ran S&D overhead and placed the DC upstairs with a separator [ trash can ] so i dont have to listen to it. its only a minor PITA to empty it!:-D

 

[MikeL]

Fred, do you have any photos of your setup that you might be willing to share?

I just moved my HF dust collector onto a loft that I had built a few years back and am ready to run PVC. Always looking for ideas to borrow :-D.

 

[FredP]

Fred, do you have any photos of your setup that you might be willing to share?

I just moved my HF dust collector onto a loft that I had built a few years back and am ready to run PVC. Always looking for ideas to borrow :-D.

cant get some good pics because of camera and lighting issues but i did manage to get these 2 that are seeable! the pipe runs the length of the shop with 2 45s to offset the pipe midway down so i could avoid moving other stuff.:roll: the drops are just Y fitings with DC pipe fittings glued in to them. the ones that you screw the flexible pipe to. I ran S&D 4" main run and Y'ed off that. some with S&D pipe and some with flex depending on weather the tool was under the main pipe of over near the wall. I dont use DC on the planer or the tablesaw.:eusa_snoo the TS isnt DC friendly and the planer makes more shavings than I care to collect!:-D I simply blast em off a piece of plywood into a cardboard box and shovel up what misses. if its nice out i blast em out in the yard!:rolf: hope some of this helps. you are wellcome to come look if ya like but there are much better systems on this site to copy trust me!:roll: BTW look at all the dust ON them pipes! it must be working!:rolf:

 

[Bas]

A raised floor (or crawl space) would be easiest, but putting it in the slab is the next best thing. I wouldn't worry too much about having the outlets in the "wrong spot". If you spend a little time on the design and don't skimp on the ports, you should be able to hook your machines up no matter how you change the layout in the future.

Remember, absolute worse case you have to augment your under-the-floor piping with one or two runs above ground...which is what you'd have to do anyway if you didn't use the slab.

I'd also run some electrical wire while you're at it, for outlets in the middle of the floor. And maybe even compressed air.

 

[JimmyC]

I'd also run some electrical wire while you're at it, for outlets in the middle of the floor. And maybe even compressed air.

I second that Bas.
Jimmy

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

There are some other threads here that you might want to read also, but here is my take.

My shop is above my garage so piping runs along the ceiling and punches through where I need it- but only in two places not along the walls. In my last shop I ran it across the ceiling.

I would not go with underslab ducting- you can't reconfigure, unless you put it deep you can't branch off with a gentle sweep wye or a wye and a 45, and T's are a NO, NO!, harder to clean, possible condensation problem, etc.

Pipe- Unless money is no object, use S&D rather than Sched 40. Sched 40 and S&D pipe are close in price, but Sched 40 fittings cost ALLOT more than S&D fittings. S&D is plenty strong enough- look at the crush strength printed on it. Use 6" rather than 4"- If you are piping to a whole shop, then you need a decent sized DC blower - 2 hp or larger with 12" minimum and preferrably 14" or 15" impeller (and possibly a cyclone) anyway.

Runs- keep them as straight as possible. It is often easier to run branches if you run the main diagonally across the room. Stay as large as possible as long as possible. If you must, only reduce at the machine. If you can, increase the DC port on the machine. Limit the use of flex.

I would possibly run electrical under the slab, but definately install underslab heating!

 

[JimmyC]

For all of you who wouldn't run under slab because of refiguration, this makes no sense. If in the future you wanted to move your TS, mine hasn't been moved yet, you can then plug up the slab hole and go overhead if the move is that necessary. As I said, most of my DC piping would still be overhead except for a few machines.

Jimmy

 

[Travis Porter]

In retrospect, I would do it, and I would put in some pipe for electrical. Schedule 40 with large elbows.

 

[scsmith42]

I too would run it in the slab, along with conduits for wire and air.

I would try to come up with a generic architecture that would allow the shop to be configured in a variety of ways, and use some type of housing in the slab that had a smooth lid (flat surface on the floor) that could be removed to access a dust port below it.

I think that I'd run either a 5" or 6" main trunk line with 5" lines feeding off of it in some type of pattern that provided for 8 - 10' grids between access locations (generic example attached).

 

[JimmyC]

I too would run it in the slab, along with conduits for wire and air.

I would try to come up with a generic architecture that would allow the shop to be configured in a variety of ways, and use some type of housing in the slab that had a smooth lid (flat surface on the floor) that could be removed to access a dust port below it.

I think that I'd run either a 5" or 6" main trunk line with 5" lines feeding off of it in some type of pattern that provided for 8 - 10' grids between access locations (generic example attached).

Scott, your plans would be a little expensive at first , but they give you alot of mobility. I like them alot, I would definitely use that configuration if I built a new shop.

Jimmy

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Why not a raised floor? Or at least just slightly above grade with a crawl space so you can insulate, run piping and electrical, etc. etc. at anytime. I still contend that is better than DC piping in the slab. I don't know how the price of concrete would compare to joists and a floor like Advantech, but they can't be that much different.

 

[thrytis]

What about putting a trench or few in your slab? That would give you a little more flexibility to reconfigure in the future while still giving you below floor dust collection. You can also move floor electrical outlets or run other things in there later.

 

[McRabbet]

Dolan,

Here is what Bill Pentz says about putting duct work under the slab (from his website at: http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Ducting.cfm

1. Cost and convenience often end up with many shops having a concrete slab floor. If you are fortunate enough to be building your shop from scratch, you can build in some trenches. I've helped build one of these type shops and did most right, but also learned a few lessons the hard way.
2. Because I included both a sink and small shower, I ran water and drains in dug trenches, plus another trench to bring in power. Living right on the edge of an industrial area, I was fortunate enough to be able to bring in three-phase power. The floor I built was put over those utilities on well-tamped ground covered in 4" of crushed rock then a vapor barrier.
3. I also tapered each of my trenches with just a little grade and put drains at the end of each trench. The mistake I made with those drains was sharing them with the sewer drain without a water trap to kill any odors. I ended up having to reconnect them to my yard drains instead.
4. I built my trench with a lip that will hold a 2x8 flush with the rest of the floor. That let me cover up the trench and not create problems moving around my equipment and tables that were on rollers. If I were to do this again today, I would make the trench sized with a lip to use the surplus aluminum raised computer room floor tiles. These are much stronger than the 2x6 and much easier to install and remove for access.
5. Into my trench went the ducting, compressed air, and power. I protected the power by putting it in well-sealed PVC coax. Had I used that raised computer room flooring my trench would have been big enough to also include lines for my shop vacuum, drainage, and possibly water if permitted by my building codes.
6. 
   I carefully framed in the trench to make a nice rectangular pour. Even with rebar sides, my straight walled trench cracked. Those cracks made for a moisture problem that was not compatible with my galvanized ducting. A far better way to go is to make a nice smooth pour as shown in the picture.
7. Computer Floor
   We are in an interesting time right now where the computer world is changing so fast that this leaves an opportunity for woodworkers. There are huge quantities of surplus very well made raised computer floor that provides a raised floor of 8" to 12" to permit running electrical, communications, cables, etc. under the floor using easily removed tiles mounted on stands. These surplus computer floor squares and uprights are readily available for little cost. They create a floor that is nothing short of incredible for woodworking. You can put in your ducting, power, water, and whatever else you need or want to run under that floor, then have easy access to make changes.

Personally, I would want to be very certain that I knew exactly where I was going to place every machine or dust collection station before I put ducts under the slab. I am lucky, like Alan, because I have a high crawl space below my basement shop. My new ClearVue Cyclone will be installed "down there" and the 6" PVC ducts will come up through the floor where needed. Hope this helps.

 

[thesource]

You are correct, it is a bad idea. What happens when you get blockage from an edging ripped off of a board? Almost impossible to clear without a jack hammer. Go overhead.