Coping saw blades

[tvrgeek]

One of the tools I need to be on better terms with is a coping saw. I tossed my $2 one and got what seems to be a much better $5 one (Stanley)

What is the various viewpoints on blades? Brands, TPI, tooth pattern etc.? I did some Googleing to no avail.

 

[mdbuntyn]

I bought Pegas 18 tpi skip-tooth blades at the recommendation of Chris Schwarz. They work well for cleaning out dovetail waste, and do okay for general coping. They have more aggressive blades, but I haven't gotten around to buying any.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/saws/coping/72682-pegas-coping-saw-blades

 

[tvrgeek]

Ah, just what I was looking for. I'll order a pack.

 

[Hmerkle]

This is what you need: Knew Concepts Coping Saws and Blades

Now before you berate another "supposedly overly-expensive" tool use one before you complain about the price...

I have bought close to that much in "cheaper" coping saws and finally found a deal on Amazon and I literally threw out every other coping saw I had!

Now, if you are sticking to your guns and not buying the best you can - buy an eclipse, I am not sure if Klingspor has them, but I think that is where I got it...

Regardless of your saw choice - take Matt's (@mdbuntyn) advice and get the Pegas blades!

 

[tvrgeek]

So got a pack of Pegas blades. Miss-marked package. Package says "skip" but blades are standard 18 tooth.
Sent them back and got a replacement set. Just the same. I am going to keep them and give them a try. Next order to LeeValey ( inevitable) I will order some through them.

Eclipse, usually good tools, came out way weaker in tension than the Stanley. Way above the crap tools, but weaker. The Stanley takes quite a bit of force to compress to install the blade.

The Knew Concepts may be a fine tool, but there is no excuse for the price. $35 I can see. Not $160. Ironic, the add on Knew for skip tooth blades shows full 18 TPI. At least the Amazon add shows skip tooth.

 

[Oka]

Hank is right I bought the Knew coping saw and my view of this tool changed exponentially. I want to say I paid 75 bucks for it when I got few years back. A good jewelers saw also works really well if you get a decent one.

 

[tvrgeek]

I do have a jewelers saw.. The one my mother had back in OT school. Very fine blades for metal work. Not much on tension though. Down stroke only. It is the 4 1/2 inch Stanley frame that is high tension. The 6 1/2 is a wet noodle like the rest.

$75 maybe, maybe someone could convince me. Not $160. And for sure not $270 for titanium.

 

[tvrgeek]

Knew replied and said if you look at the blades under a microscope, you will see the gullets are slightly spaced out over the standard. I still count 18 TPI. Maybe, but clearly not what is in the photograph for Pegas.

They also said their raw aluminum cost is going up substantially so their saw cost will go up soon. In case anyone was thinking about one.

 

[Michael Mathews]

Scott, I have several different coping saws that I've picked up at garage sales, estate sales, etc. I also have a Knew Concepts saw that you're welcome to try. That comes with a warning that it's not my fault that you have to buy one after you try mine!

 

[tvrgeek]

Knew says the Stanly has 35 Lbs tension, theirs 85. I gather the rest are far less. Mine seems higher. I just might go get a scale and see.
I will test today as I will need a break. 10 yards of mulch blocking my garage.

 

[tvrgeek]

Quite a difference in sharpness between the supplied blade and the Pegas, but both cut strait clean line. Pegas in not as deep, so tighter radius. Next step is to compare how I best get results for a dovetail. Rough with BS, Dozuli, Coping, or Gents. The coping can clear a lot more so less rough chisel work.

Now, I cut on the pull. Not sure how others use their saw. Usually, there is a "enough" as far as tension. Too little, well we know that, but is there a difference between enough and a lot more? Is this just to support cutting on the push? Is it to support more aggressive use? The Pegas blade can cut a pretty clean 1/16 inch radius in 4/4 oak. Not sure I need more. I am not doing inlays. ( yet)

The Stanley 6 1/2 has just over 20 Lbs tension, so the cheap ones must be more like 5.

 

[dancam]

OK, folks, time to get your wallet out and a home equity loan application for a $350.00 coping saw!

Blue Spruce Coping Saw

 

[tvrgeek]

Well, for $350 you can get your choice of color.* Actually a handy option if you keep different blades in several saws.
Laser cut aluminum, titanium, carbon composite. I wonder what one could do with just a high strength steel tube. The idea of bearings actually makes sense. I suggest there is a much bigger market for a good $50 saw.

So, what is "enough" tension? Let's assume 5 is not enough. 20 is not bad, 35 pretty good, and 85 known to be enough.

* Back in the old days Cray would paint your X-MP or Y-MP any color you wanted, but then again they cost several million dollars.

 

[Hmerkle]

Well, for $350 you can get your choice of color.* Actually a handy option if you keep different blades in several saws.
Laser cut aluminum, titanium, carbon composite. I wonder what one could do with just a high strength steel tube. The idea of bearings actually makes sense. I suggest there is a much bigger market for a good $50 saw.

So, what is "enough" tension? Let's assume 5 is not enough. 20 is not bad, 35 pretty good, and 85 known to be enough.

* Back in the old days Cray would paint your X-MP or Y-MP any color you wanted, but then again they cost several million dollars.

I would be curious what the eclipse coping saw tension is - I am guessing it is around that 30 range since it is a "pretty good" saw, but again, the Knew Concepts saw is VERY different. I probably wouldn't have gotten one except as a gift. (just too cheap) but now that I tried it, if it was stolen, I would place my new order that day...

 

[tvrgeek]

I wonder, the Knew and BlueSpruse are very complicated machines with expensive manufacturing. What could one do with a bit of 3/8 or so high quality steel tube or box? Simple forming, swage the ends etc.

 

[Hmerkle]

I wonder, the Knew and BlueSpruse are very complicated machines with expensive manufacturing. What could one do with a bit of 3/8 or so high quality steel tube or box? Simple forming, swage the ends etc.

I think the real problem is "creating" the frame the tubing idea is a good one, but you have to bend it or cut and weld it to create a "C" shape and then develop something to hold the blades... a rod welded into the tubing? what ever... then attach a handle to the contraption...so I am guessing your are somewhere in the $30 - $50 manufacturing cost range, so you would likely sell it at $80- $100 competing with an eclipse saw at ~$20 or the enviable Blue Spruce or Knew Concepts at a far greater price, but with a rabid following...

Probably a good idea, but the marketing and getting them into the hands of users is the real problem...

 

[tvrgeek]

From my experience in manufacturing, I would have a hard time figuring direct costs any more than about $5, so that would support a retail around 30 or so. A mass produced tool of course. I totally agree on marketing which is why I have resisted going into business several times myself, but a company already in the chain has a far different possibility than a nobody with an idea.

Consider the current cheap saws. What are they missing? Detents to hold the angle ( Stanley has them, just part of the stamping process for the ends) and tension. So the only thing different from a $5 saw is a bent bit of tubing.

There will still be a market for nicely machined precision tools that feel good in the hands. I even am guilty of a few of the original Bridge City tools, but you know, my iGang work as well. My point is there is an even bigger market for just a good tool. Maybe with the emphasis from the esoteric saws, the big boys will see a market to improve their commodity tools.

What I don't want to see is look-alike $20 rip-offs diecast from recycled beer cans in plants with no emission controls called Kneeu or something. Brian Meek says they are already out there. I am NOT going looking.