CNC Shark VS Vision Engraver

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MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
Hello,

It's been a long time... I am looking into the Vision Engraver, but at $14,000 it has me looking elsewhere. I saw the CNC Shark on a Rockler add I got in my email and it looks promising.


It will be mostly for cutting 1/8" pvc with a straight bit & when I have time I'll be engraving other wooden items & pens if it can.

Vision 16x24 bed - $14,000 Small 1/2" vacuum attachment that creates Hurricaning since there is not enought room for the material being cut to be extracted fast enough (Static build up where Plastic sticks to bit & could possibly break it while cutting)
CNC Shark 27x36 bed - $4,000 has a vacuum dust boot for $90 that looks like it can suck up more material & would eliminate the Hurricaning effect???

Any suggestions, ideas/info form other CNC owners or others that have researched it more than I have or another machine they suggest.

Thanks,

Matthew
 

SubGuy

New User
Zach
Oh yeah. What are you looking to do. If it's just surface imaging why not laser? You can get a fairly nice one large format for much cheaper than 14K. If you are looking at 3D carving, then that is a touch different. Hmmm....... Interesting.
 

smallboat

smallboat
Corporate Member
we have both the CNC Shark and a nice 40W 16 x 12 Epilog laser where I work.
The laser cost 2-3x the shark but gets much more use, mostly due to ease of use and speed.

I don't have any experience with the Vision CNC so can't comment.
My biggest complaint about the Shark is the noise factor since it uses a router motor.
I really liked the motor on the Shopbot at the NCWW WWIA booth. nice & quiet.

The 40W laser will cut up to 3/8" wood or plastics, you can't use it on anything with vinyl content.
The Shark doesn't care what it cuts (assuming correct feeds and speeds)and depending on tool and number of passes can cut thicker materials.

One major difference is when doing surface decoration the laser will give you an effect that resembles etching while the Shark will give you an effect that resembles carving.
Just depends what you are looking for.

both machines have been very reliable and easy to care for.
I find it easier to create and prep files for the laser, but that may just be my personal work flow and experience.
 

red f

New User
Blaine
I wouldn't worry too much about the dust collection when making my purchasing decision; you can always change that. FYI My experience is with a ShopBot (standard, with router) router and with an industrial sized (26,000 lbs) laser cutter.

The number one question, "What are you going to be doing with your machine?" Removing quantities of material or removing lines or both? The engraver that you have listed looks like a solid production machine that is perfectly suited for engraving. It doesn't look like it has the setup to do production wood v-carving or routing. If you want a machine that is versatile, I would defenitely suggest looking into the ShopBot desktop unit with a spindle.

I don't think that you should compare a $14,000 machine with a CNC Shark. I don't know about the newer versions of the Shark, but the first generation machines looked VERY flimsy. And, while Rockler is a great catalog, they are not known for their industrial quality.

The two biggest challenges that you have when using CNC is designing your product, and holding it still while it is being processed. With a laser such as an Epilog, your second problem doesn't really exist. You put the part where you want it, press start, and voila!!
With a router, not only do you have to make sure to hold down the part you want to keep, but all of the scrap that you generate. If you cut a 3" hole in a board and don't have tabs, vacuum, and/or screws holding it down then my suggestion is that you duck.

Another difference between laser and router is that with a router, you have to deal with tool pathing and post processing. Which is where you tell the program that you want the router bit to travel around the INSIDE of the circle that you've drawn so that you end up with a 3" hole not a 4" disk. Also this is where you tell it to leave some tabs to prevent the 4" disk from becoming a 4" discus. Post processing is where the software converts all of those lines that you drew and toolpathed into x,y,z points.
So what is the laser engraver's comparison, once it is setup, it can be as easy as clicking "print".

I realize your question wasn't about lasers, but hey, I was on a roll. That's how the politicians handle it, isn't it? If you can't answer the question that was asked, then answer the question they didn't ask.

If your business plan involves production engraving, get a quality production machine with good support. If your plan involves versatility with fine resolution, than I would recommend looking into the ShopBot desktop. It is a very rigid machine with quality components. ShopBot has been making low cost CNC for 15 or so years and has GREAT customer service. It doesn't matter if you by your machine new, or you're the 5th owner, tech support is free and located in Durham NC. You can take their 2-day class in Durham (I highly recommend). There are a bunch of tutorials on YouTube. Also there are various group events around the country to network and get to know your machine a little better. Generally these "camps" are more helpful for the new owners. Also, not many of the machines have an online usergroup that is as helpful and thorough as http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/

Don't forget, when pricing your setup to include the cost of the CAD software. For the price of the one engraver, you could afford Two of the SB desktop units and good 3-D cad software.

PS For when you do look at ShopBot, if you can swing it, I recommend an Alpha with a spindle. If you can't afford both now, you can always upgrade a router to a spindle later, but the stepper motors are another story.
 

MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
Red f,

I do not want a Laser as I just sent one back because the material I cut, PVC as mentioned above produces a horrible smell even with a 4 stage filtration system, my teeth hurt from smelling it for 3 seconds & I had to leave the garage immediately, but it also made the whole yard smell as well. PVC+Laser= Hydrochloric Acid & destroys the machine and is very harmful to your health.

I want it to cut through holes in PVC plastic sheets 1/8" thick. Say a couple rectangles inside a box shape that are all cut all the way through the material. I had a Video Conference with Vision Engravers with their engraver system & it took 2 passes & took 2 minutes to cut one item out. They used a Very Sticky Mat to hold the material & it cut it at 12,000rpm's withouth budging the material or shooting it out like a rocket.

I'm looking for a faster production type machine that can hold a 24"x36" sheet of plastic, the 16"x24" would work, but a larger area is better. With the Sticky mat to hold the material

I will check out shop bot for sure & any other machine under $14,000.... The CNC Shark comes with VCarve Pro 7.5 /Cut 3-D software package...Whatever that is, but I'm sure it can do what I need, I hope. I already created the file I need it to do with the free InkScape program.

Thanks again,

Matthew
 

smallboat

smallboat
Corporate Member
Vcarve Pro is a 2D package and probably all you need for what you describe.
Cut-3D is, well, 3D
Both handle the tool path generation Red described.

Not sure if they are useful as design tools, I model my work in other applications (sketchup or Rhino) and just let Cut-3D do the tool path.
 

MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
smallboat,

Thanks for the information on the two programs. I wish I was better at design, tried Sketchup a couple times & did alright with the program.
 
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