ClearVue 1800 Noise

[jgt1942]

I'm in the process of installing a ClearVue 1800 (15" Impeller) that I purchased from another NC Woodworker. It is mounted and I'm now able to apply power to it, so I fired it. GEE WHIZ it is loud! Using an app on my phone I measured the noise level and was super surprised to see it was 110db. The max level is when the CV was running. I was expecting something in the range of 82-96 db.

I do have the mod where a block of wood is installed in the impeller housing. I'm planning to install a muffler (Bill Pentz) in a few weeks.

What have others experienced?
What did you do to reduce the noise and how much was the reduction?

 

[creasman]

I added a separate, enclosed room just outside my shop and mounted it with dampeners to cut down on vibration. It's still fairly loud. That's the nature of the beast. One thought I have, but never implemented, is to hang it from a frame that was bolted to the concrete floor rather than suspending it directly from the joists.

 

[Millmarks]

We installed one at Made4Me and with nothing connected it was very noisy. We bolted it to the floor and then built 4 walls around it (2x4) using 1/2" cardboard and 4" of rockwool insulation. Then added 2 layers of 1/2" cardboard separated vertically by a 10" gap with a 14" horizontal offset opening for air to escape, all with 4" rock wool. Doors were added to allow access to the filters and dust drum. The end result was a noise level of 68 db. The assembly does not touch the surrounding building walls as it would transmit the sound to the rest of the building. If you have questions, PM me.

As we don't have much in the line of plywood, the whole thing was built with 1/2" cardboard sheets. We have lots of that. Our products can be seen at Made4Me.org.

 

[jgt1942]

We installed one at Made4Me and with nothing connected, it was very noisy. We bolted it to the floor and then built 4 walls around it (2x4) using 1/2" cardboard and 4" of rockwool insulation. Then added 2 layers of 1/2" cardboard separated vertically by a 10" gap with a 14" horizontal offset opening for air to escape, all with 4" rock wool. Doors were added to allow access to the filters and dust drum. The end result was a noise level of 68 db. The assembly does not touch the surrounding building walls as it would transmit the sound to the rest of the building. If you have questions, PM me.

As we don't have much in the line of plywood, the whole thing was built with 1/2" cardboard sheets. We have lots of that. Our products can be seen at Made4Me.org.

I did allow space for walls but possibly not enough space on the right side of the CV. I'll have to double-check. I've done a bit of research and found a material called Quiet-Rock that is VERY good at blocking noise. Ideally, you build a double wall with a small break between the two and put something like Quiet-Rock on both sides. Per my research rockwool is no better than regular fiberglass and a lot less expensive. However, I have not seen any studies supporting this. Also, there is a Green Caulk (Viscoelastic Damping Compound, see Green Glue Viscoelastic Damping Compound | Acoustic Glue) that is highly rated (assuming you use it correctly, basically use it as a glue to adhere two surfaces, something like the Quiet-Rock, together.

More research is required on my part, I'm not in a hurry and have several other projects I'm working on. I will start by adding a wall on the right side between the CV and the gray electrical panel and on the front where I will install two doors so I can easily access the air compressor and the CV. When I lived in AZ I created an enclosure for the air compressor and it reduced the noise level in the shop to a reasonable level. I don't recall the actual measured reduction but it was very noticeable.

 

[jgt1942]

I added a separate, enclosed room just outside my shop and mounted it with dampeners to cut down on vibration. It's still fairly loud. That's the nature of the beast. One thought I have, but never implemented, is to hang it from a frame that was bolted to the concrete floor rather than suspending it directly from the joists.

Adding a separate room is an option for me but I will explore other ideas first. Possibly this should be the first option. The wall to the left of the air compressor is an outside wall to my backyard, thus adding a small room to this would be a great option.

 

[Rushton]

John, are you running it as is appears in your photo without the dust barrel attached. If so, STOP. The dust barrel must ALWAYS be attached at the bottom of the cyclone OR the opening sealed off before operating.

With the open bottom, the impeller is trying to spin all the air in your shop and it's a huge strain on the motor.

Seal off the bottom (a piece of plywood taped across the opening will work), then take your sound measurements again.

IT IS LOUD. No question about that. And there are a host of things you can do to mitigate. But, save your motor first.

 

[jgt1942]

John, are you running it as is appears in your photo without the dust barrel attached. If so, STOP. The dust barrel must ALWAYS be attached at the bottom of the cyclone OR the opening sealed off before operating.

With the open bottom, the impeller is trying to spin all the air in your shop and it's a huge strain on the motor.

Seal off the bottom (a piece of plywood taped across the opening will work), then take your sound measurements again.

IT IS LOUD. No question about that. And there are a host of things you can do to mitigate. But, save your motor first.

Good to know, I did not realize this (thanks!!!). Fortunately, I only ran it for a few seconds, just long enough to do a sound check. I'm still working on the dustbin solution. I think I will use a 35 gal Brut can and insert a metal cylinder if it collapses. However, if somebody knows it will collapse please let me know and I'll implement the metal cylinder before attempting to use it. Main reason for using the Brut is the base with wheels, which will make emptying it a bit easier (so I think).

 

[Rushton]

I've read reports of the Brut barrels collapsing. No direct experience. I use a fiber barrel, but clearly a more expensive solution.

 

[Dee2]

Find a LineX dealer. They have 55 gal drums. Been a few years back but I think I paid $10 for one. Better still, it was clean.

FWIW, my ClearVue is mounted on a homemade steel channel frame and bolted to the floor. I braced it to the wall with isolating mounts from McMaster Carr. All of this is inside a double studded closet. The noise running through the ductwork is annoying but not much of the CV noise is heard. I exhausted the closet though the ceiling rafters and a 180 bend in the flow. Haven't measured dB.

 

[Rushton]

John, are you running it as is appears in your photo without the dust barrel attached. If so, STOP. The dust barrel must ALWAYS be attached at the bottom of the cyclone OR the opening sealed off before operating.

I followed up with ClearVue about the "why" to never running the cyclone without the dust barrel attached. Their reply was a bit different than I recalled, but still emphatic to always have the dust barrel attached when running. This is what they said: "Yes the barrel needs to be attached, if not your motor ramps up and will over exceed the amps and then it will trip the breaker."

 

[jgt1942]

I used duct tape to seal the cyclone bin port, tested the db, still 110 db, checked the tape (all was OK), then shut it off, again checked the tape (still all seems to be OK).
I do have a 55-gallon white plastic food drum that I cut down slightly and fitted an Oneida Air Systems Super Dust Deputy (4/5 DIY) (see https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0877B6LQP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) but never progress any further with it. The only dust it has is what has fallen on it. I'm undecided as to what I'm going to do with it, possibly install it in a friend's shop that does not have a dust collector. If the Brut can fails, then I will use my modified food drum for the CV. I'm leaning toward the Brut mainly because I have a wheel base for it. I could modify the base and use it with the plastic food drum. I paid $20 for the food drum.

I just checked and there is a LineX dealer in Wilmington, about 45 min away for me.

The dust bin sensor I will be installing is adjustable thus I can easily determine what level I want to call full. A 35 gallon bag of sawdust is the max I can handle and each day it gets harder. So much for the golden years!

Rush, thanks for the follow-up with CV.

 

[Rushton]

Hi John, you're welcome for the CV follow-up.

What dust bin sensor will you be using? I may have to replace ours here (still diagnosing) and am looking for options.

As to noise solutions, in my basement shop some years ago, I used a 20' run of insulated flex HVAC duct between blower output and filters. Did modestly well for an open room installation with no other sound insulation. The muffler may do better. In our new community workshop where I am now, I installed the cyclone in a closet down the hall but with two shared walls with the shop. We created a baffled air vent to exhaust the air from the closet into the main shop area so that we'd bear the brunt of any noise rather than some of the facilities maintenance staff with offices along that hallway. The closet is otherwise not sound insulated but everyone agrees the sound level is quite livable with the door shut, including the facilities staff who have nearby offices. As with others, I concur that a closet surrounding the cyclone is a better solution than having it open within your same work space. The table saw or jointer or planer are all louder than the cyclone when on.

Have you seen Ed Morgano's YouTube video taking noise measurements in his shop? Here's the link:

 

[AllanD]

I used a metal garbage can and have two to easily switch them. Glued foam to the inside perimeter of the lid to seal.

 

[Rushton]

The older heavy gauge metal garbage cans are a great solution. But be wary of the newer light weight metal cans -- there have been reports of the lighter gauge metal cans collapsing just like the plastic cans.

 

[jgt1942]

Darn, the last post I created did not get posted. I assume that I did not click the post button. Let's see if I can recreate.

What dust bin sensor will you be using? I may have to replace ours here (still diagnosing) and am looking for options.

I will use the "Banner QS18VP6D Photoelectric switch" and ordered from eBay >> Banner QS18VP6D Photoelectric switch | eBay

See the attached PDF (Banner World-Beam QS18.pdf) and Low Cost Level Sensor for Saw Dust Collection System, using Banner QS18VP6D.docx. I created the word file after watching the video >>

I used "4k Video Downloader" to download the YouTube video.

NOTE: the sensor does not come with a power adapter or light. You need to use a power adapter (12v/24v) to match the light you are using. I will be installing a old 12v USB charger in my power box for this.

Have you seen Ed Morgano's YouTube video taking noise measurements in his shop? Here's the link:

I had not seen the video, thanks for the link.
I was VERY surprised that when he measured the noise level he got 82 db and I get 110 db, what a HUGE difference! Could be the app I'm using. I see he actually used a db meter. I'll have to check with a different app on my Android phone.

I used a metal garbage can and have two to easily switch them. Glued foam to the inside perimeter of the lid to seal.

I'm going to try using the Brut just because it has the base with wheels. If this fails then I will use my modified white plastic drum and possibly modify the Brut base or make a base. In either case I will be using a 3/4" piece of plywood for the lit. I want to install a crank and pulley to lift the lid so I can easily lift the lid and remove the dust bin. With either I will be using a plastic bag in the bin and will have a metal cylinder that is inserted in the plastic bag to keep it in place. Somewhere in my research I recall seeing a comment that the plastic bag got sucked up when the motor was running. I really don't want to be dumping the dust into a bag from a full bin. I place my sawdust out with my garbage (I don't have a use for it). Initially I dumped it into my big garbage can but the garbage collector was not happy with the dust it created when he dumped the garbage can it into the truck.

 

[Rushton]

I will use the "Banner QS18VP6D Photoelectric switch"

Thanks! I will be interested in the results you get with this setup. In our shop, we installed the McRabbet designed bin sensor and alarm that ClearVue sold for a while (now discontinued). Some component on the circuit board in it has now failed and I need to find another solution if I can't figure out a fix. The nice feature of the McRabbet alarm was that it would also automatically cut off the motor.

Bin Sensor System Contents

Components included with McRabbet Woodworks Bin Sensor system.

www.ncwoodworker.net

 

[woodlaker2]

Yes it is pretty loud. I use over the ear muffs which for me works very well.

 

[iclark]

Once you get a barrel properly connected to the dust drop, I would suggest using a mechanic's stethoscope to check out the sources of the noise.

That round to rectangular transition in the in-flow looks way too abrupt and possibly too close to the vortex vertical. If you are feeding turbulent air into that vortex area, it can create a lot of noise.

 

[jgt1942]

Once you get a barrel properly connected to the dust drop, I would suggest using a mechanic's stethoscope to check out the sources of the noise.

That round to rectangular transition in the in-flow looks way too abrupt and possibly too close to the vortex vertical. If you are feeding turbulent air into that vortex area, it can create a lot of noise.

Great idea!!! Will do.
Yesterday I made a jig to reduce the size of 6" drain pipe to fit the 6" blast gates. The OD of the gate is 148.28 mm and the ID of the pipe is 154,88 mm. After I made the jig I tested and it was successful.

Previously I made a jig to expand the 6" pipe to create a bell. As I started to assemble the pipe for the duct I discovered that often because I cut the long length of pipe I needed a bell on the short piece. So far this has worked great.

 

[Rushton]

Yesterday I made a jig...

John, would you be willing to post photos of the two jigs you made? I'd love to see what you found to work for you in expanding and compressing the ends of the drain pipe.