Cheap? Diamond stones???

[Hmerkle]

I was watching yet another sharpening video and someone mentioned the trend 300 / 1000 grit diamond stone...
They seem to be available for ~$100 - $120

Funny thing though, in a Google search Shaaf tools ad popped up and it seems like a SMOKING good deal... which makes me nervous... "If it is too good to be true..."

400/1000 Grit Monocrystalline Diamond Sharpening Stone

Discover excellent quality from Shaaf Tools' 400/1000 Grit double sided Monocrystalline Diamond Sharpening Stone for sharpening your wood carving chisels.

www.schaaftools.com

Curious if anyone has any experience with this "stone"

 

[Mike Davis]

Had a couple of those, they are great stones for the price. Haven't done a long term wear test. gave one to my son and one to my daughter. Had intended to keep one for testing but kids come first...

 

[Hmerkle]

I think my DMT Plastic / Diamond "Stones" are wearing... especially the coarse one since it sees the most use...
I JUST ordered two of the Shaaf "Stones" because I was disappointed that having a two-sided stone did actually require you to flip them over to use them... seemed like a good idea to buy two stones and actually have 4, except in practice you cannot "mount" them to a sharpening station because you have to flip them to go through the various grits...
I know, think before you buy, but in my defense, these were the first diamond "stones", I was using water stones prior to that...
Hopefully I can document a "long-term wear test" we shall see... After this past year, I am happy that I remember pants when I leave the house...

 

[tvrgeek]

Timely as my old cheap Smiths are shot and my DMT is getting there. I go to glass/paper and leather for the final edge.

Amazing how handy really cheap stones are. Useful for things you would not want to use your DMT for, like gasket mating surfaces, machine tops, all kinds of things really. I have a pair of Smiths 320 and 600. Use them all the time, just not for my chisels. Even that square 4 side HF is a handy bit to carry around in a tool box.

 

[tvrgeek]

Amazon has several that LOOK identical, but may or may not be mono-crystalline and who knows about the plating. Buyer beware I guess.

 

[Hmerkle]

Amazon has several that LOOK identical, but may or may not be mono-crystalline and who knows about the plating. Buyer beware I guess.

It REALLY is Buyer beware on items like this - the Pacific Rim produces a LOT of item that "Look" right, but when in-use are less than "As advertised!"

 

[Oka]

I forget what brand I got but I have one of those type plates but mine is 120/180 my 600 and 1200 are the solid steel plate with the diamond coating. All actually work great but, the 120/180 just feels cheaper.

 

[Inarticulate]

I've used waterstones for as long as I can remember. I always flattened them on a granite reference surface but hated how often I had to do it. They were great for maintaining an edge but terrible for lapping the backs of chisels and planes or doing significant repairs/reshaping.

After taking Mike's sharpening class and seeing how wonderful diamond stones were (on his DMT's), I bought the Schaaf stone for myself. I did one plane blade and 4 chisels before noticing that the 400-side didn't seem to be doing anything anymore. I thought it was my imagination but I flipped over to the 1000 side and it was doing more than the 400! There weren't any visible diamonds missing and it wasn't clogged. I contacted Schaaf directly through Amazon and they were great - sent me a new stone free of charge. (I keep meaning to send the Schaaf stone over to Mike to get his take on it - I may be doing something wrong.)

In the meantime, though, I bought a DMT coarse stone. I noticed the plane I had sharpened on the Schaaf needed some tuneup since I was getting tear-out on some maple. I did a few strokes on the back of the plane blade to verify that it was flat and there was a large belly in the back of the blade where it looked like I had sharpened it on a concave stone. It took my quite some time to get it back to flat with the DMT.

The replacement Schaaf stone arrived but I'm afraid to put any tools on it. I might stick to just doing narrow chisels on it so its not a total loss. Just my anecdotal experience.

-Matt

 

[tvrgeek]

Old school water stones, we use a haringra (sp?) nd power to flatten. ( I still have mine if anyone is interested) Anyway, above comments suggest I will stick with DMT. Expensive, but we know they work and hold up.

 

[RedBeard]

This has a lot of good information about diamond stones and what makes some better than others. He recommends the Trend. I have that one and has been great. It does feel a little slow if taking out chips or back flattening but is great for the other 99% of my needs.

 

[Hmerkle]

This has a lot of good information about diamond stones and what makes some better than others. He recommends the Trend. I have that one and has been great. It does feel a little slow if taking out chips or back flattening but is great for the other 99% of my needs.

Thanks @RedBeard, that is actually the one I watched that initiated my search. I Googled the Trend stone looking at pricing and hesitated since, my DMT "stones" are still working, but when I saw the Shaaf "deal".
Now I have to figure out how to (somewhat) objectively reviewing the stones...

 

[tvrgeek]

Unfortunately an objective test would require some method of life cycle testing with calibrated automation and measurement.

 

[Hmerkle]

Unfortunately an objective test would require some method of life cycle testing with calibrated automation and measurement.

Yes, that is the problem and even if you create some original test, how do you replicate that?
I remember someone doing a scratch test with a piece of polycarbonate, but I still think that is so subjective unless you hade a method of measuring the divots / scratches in the material...
Regardless, we know day one the scratch pattern will be more aggressive than day 20, but the real question is, how do you objectively or subjectively evaluate the "life" of the stone?!

 

[tvrgeek]

I would get some tool steel cut into 2 inch cubes. Make a jig that slowly oscillated the block against the stone. Use a calibrated weight. Then let it run being flooded with solvent. Then periodically measure the weight of each block. You could then graph the rate at which the material removal decreased.

 

[Hmerkle]

I would get some tool steel cut into 2 inch cubes. Make a jig that slowly oscillated the block against the stone. Use a calibrated weight. Then let it run being flooded with solvent. Then periodically measure the weight of each block. You could then graph the rate at which the material removal decreased.

Good idea, but I already have a career! LOL

 

[Oka]

@tvrgeek -I am thoroughly glad you never over think it ....... the sad thing was I thought the same thing. But, since you only need 2 reference points I thought something like O1
3/8"- 1x2 chips on an articulating/random orbit gizmo attached by a N60 magnet applying 12-15 lbs of downward pressure. Or, better yet, several sequence tests with varying applied pressures. A Flattening grinder table could be easily adapted to do this automatically. You would just need progressive gearing that on every return it moved the table laterally 1/32"or so and upon the end of the set it auto returns at the same progressive movement. ..........

I would get some tool steel cut into 2 inch cubes. Make a jig that slowly oscillated the block against the stone. Use a calibrated weight. Then let it run being flooded with solvent. Then periodically measure the weight of each block. You could then graph the rate at which the material removal decreased.

 

[tvrgeek]

Sounds like a simple program for a CNC mill.
Yup, there comes a point where it is easier just to go with the known. Thread made me get around to it and order the large DMT course grit for rough initial flattening. Restocked my 2000 and 3000 paper last visit to Klingspor.

 

[Hmerkle]

Yup, there comes a point where it is easier just to go with the known.

True, but if this is a monocrystalline diamonds and if they hold-up as well as the DMT (plastic body) SCORE! I consider it worth the gamble...
Worst case, I have a $100 lesson...
BUT one of the reasons I went with it, was because I have ordered other Shaaf products and they were really good...

 

[tvrgeek]

Not just the dust, but the method of bonding. I'll keep them in mind as I am not at all happy with my Freud carving tools.

 

[Dorm]

Might there be just simple list of best to worst stones for either diamond or natural out there? I cannot endure the time and/or torture some of these utube vids take up and still never provide a solid recommendation. Something simple like this would be beneficial to me.

Ciao ... Dorm