Calendar Contest - More Disqualified

[SteveColes]

I haven't been monitoring the entries lately .So today, when I was going through them in prep for starting the voting, I had to disqualify quite a few and I haven't even gone through them all.:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

What really bothers me the most is that there are some georgeous pictures of great projects. BUT, they still had to be disqualified. For the same reasons we have talking about since the contest started. Not enough resolution and/or not in portrait mode:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

I am really sorry that I had to disqualify your pictures and probably I am not yet done.:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

For all entrants, please look at the disqualified category so you won't be surprised when the voting starts. If you don't uderstand why your entry was disqualified, post your your question with the picture in question displayed in the post and one of us will try to explain. I promise, that I am not trying to pick on anyone.

STAFF: Those of you who understand the issues, would you go through the entries in the contest and move any other pictures that should be disqualified to the disqual category. It would be a great help to me.

 

[cskipper]

Unless I am reading the dimensions backward, there are only 4 05 5 pictures in the furniture gallery that will remain in the contest. Am I missing something?

 

[Mike Davis]

I counted around 40 in the furniture category of the contest Cathy.

The pictures have to be in Portrait mode |-| And at least 1150 wide by 1550 tall. More is better.

 

[cskipper]

I guess that it might be apparent to some, but I must have my stupid hat on. Is there a required ratio between the two numbers? If so, how do the following three photo's in the furniture category qualify?
Curly Maple & Curly Walnut Sofa Table by MrAudio15, Cedar chest the MrAudio15 and Lingerie Chest by Woodnick?

 

[DaveO]

I think that I got all the ones that were definitely not usable. There are some that could be worked with :dontknow:, so I didn't move them.
Dave

 

[DaveO]

I guess that it might be apparent to some, but I must have my stupid hat on. Is there a required ratio between the two numbers? If so, how do the following three photo's in the furniture category qualify?
Curly Maple & Curly Walnut Sofa Table by MrAudio15, Cedar chest the MrAudio15 and Lingerie Chest by Woodnick?

Cathy those pics are large enough that they might be able to be cropped to work. But on the other hand they might not. Pictures like that are ones that I've left in, just in case they could be used.
Dave

 

[PChristy]

It is a shame that these had to be disqualified - sure is some beautiful work - NCWWer's are the greatest:eusa_clap

 

[DaveO]

It is possible that many of them could be resized and/or cropped and be usable. I don't know what the rules are on re-submitting a disqualified entry after the contest closing. That is up to Papa Smurf.
Dave

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

I don't have an entry (again :embaresse, like always?) but am having a little problem with the Calendar Contest especially in view of the number of disqualified entries. I have read what it says in the contest announcement ("Please remember that this is primarily a Photo Contest"), and I know we want a product that looks nice (and professional?), but are we a community of photographers or a community of woodworkers? (Yes I know some of you are fantastic at both!)

It just seems to me that the calendar should showcase the great woodworking done by our members, not the great digital photography (and photo-editing) some can do. Also, can someone direct me to the current selection criteria?

I suggest the calendar goals, procedures, rules, etc. be re-examined after this issue is published to ensure they meet the current wishes of the membership.

My suggestion is that the selection of the twelve monthly "projects" be based on the "work" photographed - 3 views per submission- not the photograph(s). Once twelve "projects" have been selected by a committee of judges, the membership, or whatever has been established, then photographs can be prepared for publication. The photos submitted by some participants will likely be fine as is, but for any that are not, I'm sure one of our members who is a talented photographer can guide the builder through a reshoot or we might decide that, if needed, we could pay for our photographer's gas to drive and reshoot the project for the craftsman.

As to photography, PhotoShop, graphic arts, etc., competition- the members who so desire can participate in the cover design part of the contest using any of the submissions.

We will need to start earlier, but what is the disadvantage to that? Was this statement lined out in the contest announcement because of a shortage of time? "[strike]This year, all photos will be tested to make sure that they will fit and display on a calendar page properly. If the picture does not work, the submitter will be notified and given a chance to make the proper corrections[/strike]."

Just my two cents worth.

 

[SteveColes]

I guess that it might be apparent to some, but I must have my stupid hat on. Is there a required ratio between the two numbers? If so, how do the following three photo's in the furniture category qualify?
Curly Maple & Curly Walnut Sofa Table by MrAudio15, Cedar chest the MrAudio15 and Lingerie Chest by Woodnick?

No it is not apparent. I believe that the ones you mentioned will be disqualified and some others in that category, too.

As I said in my post above, I hadn't finished going through them. I will by tomorrow.

 

[DaveO]

Alan, I will have to most respectfully disagree with most of your comments, please see below -

I don't have an entry (again :embaresse, like always?) but am having a little problem with the Calendar Contest especially in view of the number of disqualified entries. I have read what it says in the contest announcement ("Please remember that this is primarily a Photo Contest"), and I know we want a product that looks nice (and professional?), but are we a community of photographers or a community of woodworkers? (Yes I know some of you are fantastic at both!) Yes this is a woodworking forum, but it also an Internet forum where the only way to showcase your work is through digital photography. The Calendar is a visual entity and a commercial entity. Without good photography it would be a piece of junk and not viable to sell to members or the general public (which we are now targeting)

It just seems to me that the calendar should showcase the great woodworking done by our members, not the great digital photography (and photo-editing) some can do. See above. Also, can someone direct me to the current selection criteria? http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f22/2009-calendar-contest-now-open-entries-15882/

I suggest the calendar goals, procedures, rules, etc. be re-examined after this issue is published to ensure they meet the current wishes of the membership. That is a good idea, and something I don't disagree with. Although I don't know how they could be changed much as much of it is the publishing needs and marketing needs. I do think that the effort to include more members into the calendar by having 2 pictures per page have made this a more difficult contest, but that should be outweighed by the numbers that are able to participate...thusly creating more sales.

My suggestion is that the selection of the twelve monthly "projects" be based on the "work" photographed - 3 views per submission- not the photograph(s). Once twelve "projects" have been selected by a committee of judges, the membership, or whatever has been established, then photographs can be prepared for publication. The photos submitted by some participants will likely be fine as is, but for any that are not, I'm sure one of our members who is a talented photographer can guide the builder through a reshoot or we might decide that, if needed, we could pay for our photographer's gas to drive and reshoot the project for the craftsman. That is a great idea in theory. But in practice is could be very difficult. To start judging a worthy entry by a poor picture would be difficult. Second, many pieces being entered might not be in the craftspersons possession at the time of the re-shooting. I know I have a lot of things that I would have liked to enter, but never got a good enough picture of, and no longer have (been given as gifts or sold)

As to photography, PhotoShop, graphic arts, etc., competition- the members who so desire can participate in the cover design part of the contest using any of the submissions. That catagory is rocking this year. The $150 prize really brought out the creative side in a bunch of folks. But you will see that many are using photos from the contest or pic gallery in general. You need good pictures to start. Crap in crap out.

We will need to start earlier, but what is the disadvantage to that? Was this statement lined out in the contest announcement because of a shortage of time? "[strike]This year, all photos will be tested to make sure that they will fit and display on a calendar page properly. If the picture does not work, the submitter will be notified and given a chance to make the proper corrections[/strike]."
I don't know much about this. I do know that we started earlier this year. This is a lot of work for Steve who is essentially doing this alone, for the benefit of this community. Maybe next year having a group of folks who could help organize this and run this would result in better results.



Just my two cents worth.

Mine two :icon_thum


Dave

 

[lwhughes149]

Maybe I am missing something? Where are the possible pic that in question? Everyone seems to be viewing them but me.:icon_scra

 

[DaveO]

Lorriane here are the listing of all the calendar entries -
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?cat=1260

Dave

 

[lwhughes149]

Thanks Dave, I was looking at it while you were viewing. Thanks

 

[SteveColes]

Dave, thanks for responding. You explained my position very well.

You are correct about the "2-up" issue. It has been a source of problems. But the truth is that the general resolution requirements 200 - 300 dpi are still the biggest headache.

In the two years past, both Monty & I volunteered to help people get their pictures into the right format. This year I just didn't have the time and Monty isn't really active anymore.

As far as the strikeout section, you are correct it was also a timing problem. Sorry. I was also going to put up a >psd tmplate of the page, so people could try it thenselves, but that would have been even more confusing for people.

I think that next year, if the Board decides to have a calendar contest, they will probably create a committee to run it and do the work. Why might they decide not to run it economics:swoon:

 

[MrAudio815]

Cathy those pics are large enough that they might be able to be cropped to work. But on the other hand they might not. Pictures like that are ones that I've left in, just in case they could be used.
Dave

Hey Dave and Steve,


First timer at this calendar thing and just wnated to know why my photos were disqaulified if they were big enough? Or too big. I can re-submit if at all possible with you guys. Just not really sure why they were. If I new why they were disqualified then I will make sure not to make the same mistake next year ...Thank you

Thanks for your time,


Oh I had some thoughts about next years calendar, Have it where there is no room for error when people submit thier photos, when they add it to the contest it will automatically resize it to the correct size if it is to big/small. Now if it is grainy after resizing a small picture then they will of course have to take a higher resolution picture.


-----Matthew-----
Custom Home Audio

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Alan, I will have to most respectfully disagree with most of your comments, please see below -
Dave

Dave, I didn't mean to strike a nerve here, but let me disagree with your disagreement :dontknow:. Actually we agree more than disagree. It comes down to intent, focus, and execution and I tried to provide some constructive suggestions along those lines.

I don't see that we are in disagreement on the first point- my only point is that we are mixing two media and judging work, by one- its photography. We certainly can do both, but should not judge one by the other.

I can take a lousy photo of a real Maloof, Krenov, David Marks, etc. creation. It may be a lousy photo, but literally a museum piece, yet not make the NCWW calendar grade. Conversely, I have seen some great "Photoshop" projects whose picture quality far exceeds the original object! If the intent is to put out a calendar of great project "photos," then that should be stressed and criteria for that used; and the original project should not be considered. However, I would rather see NCWW members spending their time making the best woodworking projects they can, rather than making the a "photo" of a project look the best it can.

Note: I may be wrong, but no where in the announcement at the link does it say the photo submission must be of a project constructed by the photographer!!!!!

I don't disagree about the calendar, or ANYTHING in the announcement either. As I said, the photography for the calendar should be the best- we just need to find a way to do that (frankly better than we are) for the best "projects."

You'll need to give me more than the link. I read it again, but couldn't find any "selection" criteria. I only found (photo) "submission" criteria. Selection criteria would depend on the category and is something the judges, (or the membership) whoever they may be, should use. I am thinking of (project) criteria such as "uniqueness of (original) design", "adaptation of an existing design", "execution of (a plans-built) design", "proportions/scale", "variety, execution, and tightness of joinery", "selection and use of wood/species," "grain selection, application, etc." "finish," etc. etc. etc. NCWW can select those criteria which fit our needs. I don't suggest we make this difficult, but there needs to be some standards (especially since money is involved!!!). In light of Steve's "Voting" post, where are the guidelines for assigning a 1 - 10?

As for photographic criteria, if it were still to judged, since I am a hacker, I could only guess, but things such as- "use of lighting" "composition and subject placement," "color rendition," "background", etc. etc., etc. There are some really great cover submissions this year, but frankly if I were to judge them it would be totally arbitrary and subjective. What looks good to me may not look good to others. I don't have much of a feel for the talent and skill required to create some of the cover designs. To properly judge the cover submissions requires a set of "graphic arts" or "electronic media publishing" judging criteria. Heck, even an "all members vote" method should have some guidelines.

I wouldn't want to make this too hard; NCWW can set whatever criteria for both or either, but it seems that the judging criteria be standardized, understandable, and published. I'm sure there are any number of judging criteria available for both areas.

As far as the guidelines for photo submissions for projects to be judged, they can be similar to those already published, but should NOT be calendar ready restrictive, nor should they allow any manipulation. e.g. - 3 digital views (front, quarter, 1 optional) full frame, max resolution (could be a problem since some folks have bajillion mega-pixel cameras (even large format digital if there is such a thing?) and some have only 2 mega-pixel cameras), raw photos- no digital or other photo manipulation, uncropped, unedited. Raw photos would actually make it much easier for contestants in the cover design contest. It would allow them to do a cut and paste of a unique joint, view, or other aspect of a particular piece of work.

Just another two cents worth! :slap: If I spent more time in my shop, I would have less time to write these diatribes. Gee, maybe I should have taken some REALLY GOOD pics of my autogates, or other tinkering and submitted it in the "Other" category, since I haven't done much else this past year! :roll:

 

[Mike Davis]

Maybe next year we could have a calendar with a photo for each day, so nobody would feel left out.

The only reason I entered was because Steve was asking for more submissions. I never win anything and really could care less. I'll withdraw in a heartbeat.

However, at this late date it seems somewhat juvenile to second guess all the rules, regulations, submissions and voting mechanisms.

I would think the proper thing to do would be to make suggestions for the next contest and maybe offer to help write up some guidelines. It certainly wouldn't be fair to change everything midstream after the voting has started.

 

[Ken Massingale]

Maybe next year we could have a calendar with a photo for each day, so nobody would feel left out.

I agree. :eusa_booh and :argue: isn't what this forum is about. :no:

 

[Trent Mason]

I hadn't even looked at any of the calendar stuff until today. While there were some excellent points made, if it is something that is going to be sold to the public, it needs to be aesthetically pleasing and well-presented. You have to take presentation into account for things like this because the buyers WILL take it into account and it will make or break the sale. All in all, there were some AMAZING projects. I was amazed at the level of craftsmanship that I saw. You all are second to none. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

Cheers, ccasion1

Trent