Building a shop

[rherrell]

Hey everybody
This is my first post but I have been reading your comments for some time.
My name is Rick and I'm a sheet metal fabricator by trade (30 years) and a weekend woodworker for enjoyment. Basically I've just been making frames for my stained glass projects and a few small tables and the like. I've decided to build a bigger shop in the back yard and I would like some input from the professionals on what to do and more important what NOT to do.
I have enough space for about a 24'x24' or 20'x30' bldg.
I'm planning on a metal 2 car garage with 7' walls and a gable style roof with 2 roll-up doors. I'm leaning toward a slab foundation with 2x4 sleepers and a 3/4" plywood floor. I need help with dust collection, shop layout and anything else you can think of. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks for all your help , Rick.

 

[4yanks]

Rick,
I am not a professional WW. I have been an avid amatuer for about 12 years. I just completed construction on my third shop (2nd freestanding). The size and details of the shop you are proposing sound good to me with the exception of the height. Seven feet might be a little short, espcially if you will be raising the floor with sleepers and wooden flooring. At a minimum this will limit the floor area you will be able to use for placement (and choices) of some machinery. For example, many larger dust collectors are designed to fit under an 8 foot ceiling or higher. Furthermore, handling stock is more difficult if your ceiling is a limiting factor. I would shoot for a 9' ceiling or higher if I was you. Having said all this I will tell you that my first shop was only 6' tall at the sides and 7' at the center. I made it work and I'm sure you can too. Good luck.

 

[McRabbet]

Welcome aboard, Rick. I must agree that 7' of ceiling height is not adequate for a shop ceiling -- even if you were able to put in flush-hung ceiling lights, you need room to move stock around and it will be impossible -- if you put in a slightly raised floor, give very strong consideration to raising it enough to put your dust collection mains under the floor -- My shop is in a raised basement and all of my ducts and DC are below the shop floor, which avoids further loss of ceiling height.

Check out Toolferone's shop on his website http://www.dreamshopwoodworks.com/workshop1.htm and you will see how one of our members built his backyard dream shop. Tom's is not raised, but his ceiling height is substantially higher to improve head space, lighting and room for ductwork. By the way, be sure to ask for a Photo Gallery under Site Navigation choices to the left of your Home Page screen and post pictures as you build that beauty!

Good luck and sounds like great fun!

Rob

 

[Ray Martin]

Hi Rick,

Glad you decided to start posting. This is a great website and as you've already seen in this thread, there are very knowledgable folks who are very willing to help.

I'd have to agree with the above posters about the height. Think in terms of moving a sheet of plywood or MDF. They all start out at 8'.

Think about what you might be doing or what you might want in a couple of years. Think about future needs for electricity, ventilation, lighting, dust control, etc. It's easier, and generally cheaper, to do an initial fit up with extra capacity on everything, than it is to do a retrofit after the shop is filled with tools, material, jigs, and projects.

Ray

 

[Sweetgum]

Welcome!!

There are a number of companies that provide a "shop planning" tool online. Here is one from Grizzley. http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

 

[Ray Martin]

Hey Brad,

Thanks for the pointer to the shop planner. Even as a IT type professional, with loads of computer at my disposal, I still do some things by hand. :-? I wonder how many of us have designed a shop or shed by cutting out scaled pieces of paper and arranged them on a grid or some graph paper?

Ray

 

[Travis Porter]

Welcome aboard. I agree with the 7 foot height. Had a basement shop with 7 ft and although it isn't a show stopper it is ha PITA. There are several web sites that have shop layout programs. Porter Cable and Grizzly both allow you to do these.

Other suggestions would be to put an AC electrical panel in so you can add, change, and cut off power easily. If you can get running water into it, I would recommend it.
As for dust collection, since you are a metal fabricator you may like metal pipe, but after redoing my shop's, I hate it. My advice is to be sure to use wye's and not tee's and use wide 90's and not narrow.

 

[D L Ames]

Rick, welcome to NCWW. I concur with all the comments above about the ceiling height. I have 9' at my walls and 11' at the peak which gives me plenty of head room. You may want to consider a stick framed building versus the metal type building. If you still want to go with the metal building maybe you can see if there is an option to add a stem wall along the edge of your slab to elevate the building to the desired height. Of course then all of the door openings would have to be adjusted accordingly.

When you layout out your electrical make sure you add plenty of outlets for both 110 and 220. I placed 110 outlets ever 6' around my shop and added a few additional 110 outlets in the ceiling as well. I currently have four 220 circuits and wish I would have added a few more. Having a separate AC sub-panel in the shop as Travis points out is a great ideal also.

Good luck with your planning.

D L

 

[helmswatch]

Rick,

Welcome aboard the best website we have seen in years. Don't think you need any advise from us....our shop is 6' x 14'!! And it doubles as the Duke's Landing Community & Beer Center for us and the only two neighbors we have! Good luck on your shop.

Duke & Irene

 

[DaveD]

Welcome aboard.

As to the shop I would do a minimum 10' side walls. On a 30x30 or larger shop I'd personally go to 12' walls. Do the roof framing with scissor trusses to get some additional height in the center and it will still give you all kinds of room for insulation. Try to plan to get effecient use out of stock material.

An 8' ceiling in a large area gives you a really closed in feeling.

If it was me I'd do 2x6 walls. I'd do everything on 16" centers. No center supports anywhere Get a 100 amp sub panel in the garage. Yes you could get away with less.

I'd build up a stem wall of some kind out of block (1, 2, or 3 courses) or have it poured with the concrete. That gets the wood off the ground and away from mosisture/dirt. I don't like lumber close to the ground. 2' high stem wall, and 10' high framed walls will give effecient use of plywood/framing lumber.

'You can't put in too many outlets. I have quad outlets every 5' or so on one wall and its still marginal. Put the outlets up at bench height and/or 4'+ so you can lean plywood against the wall and still get to the outlets. Wire 30A 220 outlets periodically. My hobby expanded into welding and now I have three 50 amp outlets too.

Don't be cheap on wiring. Forget saving a few bucks with 14 gauge for the lighting. Consider running all wiring in exposed conduit after you finish the walls (if you do finish them). After all its a shop.

At my last house I had a 20x40' area all for myself. Half was scissor trussed and the other half 8'-6" ceiling. The 8'-6"' ceiling was confining. The scissor trussed area was sweet.

If you put a raised wood floor over the slab I'd frame up the sleepers at 12" on center with 3/4" minimum plywood with solid blocking on all the edges of the plywood.

You can build a very nice shop for little extra money if you can do the majority of the work yourself.

I'm partial to concrete floors myself. A little harder on the feet but then I don't get worked up when I get paint overspray on the concrete.

if you want to think about resale value I'd consider even 14' walls. Particularly if the next owner was a cart nut and wanted to put a lift in.

Remember the building codes are 'minimum codes'. Who wants to build to a 'minimum'?:roll:

 

[Ray Martin]

Welcome aboard.

If it was me I'd do 2x6 walls. I'd do everything on 16" centers. No center supports anywhere Get a 100 amp sub panel in the garage. Yes you could get away with less.

I'd build up a stem wall of some kind out of block (1, 2, or 3 courses) or have it poured with the concrete. That gets the wood off the ground and away from mosisture/dirt. I don't like lumber close to the ground. 2' high stem wall, and 10' high framed walls will give effecient use of plywood/framing lumber.
.
.
.

I'm partial to concrete floors myself. A little harder on the feet but then I don't get worked up when I get paint overspray on the concrete.

Dave has some really good advice in his note. If you do build this thing yourself, do remember Building Codes.
- 2 X 6 studs in the walls allow you to have 24" OC. It's 16"OC if you use 2 X 4 studs.
- any wood that touches concrete must be pressure treated lumber
- CCA treated wood can still be sold but is no longer manufactured. Use hot dip galvanized fasteners for either.

There is a lot to the codes so it's good to have some advice from a builder. You can get copy of the codes from county offices... but reading them will turn your brain into an inert substance and you will slip into a coma.

I can answer some questions (certainly not all of them... I'm not that smart) if you post them here. I'm sure there are other builders in the group as well. I do have a copy of the NC Residential Code book here at the house, in case anyone wants to come over and have a look and a cup of coffee.

Ray

 

[frigator]

Well I can tell ya how I built mine. Make it as big as you can afford, never hear people complain their shop is TOO big, its always too small.

I built mine over an old basketball court that was already on the property, poured footers and did 3 courses of blocks(2ft high) and then used 2x6 studs, 10ft long to give me just over 12ft height. I had trusses built so there is an upstairs storage room for wood with an outside staircase to get to it. Put in a bunch of windows and also an old salvaged steel beam that I can use to pick things up with a chain hoist. I cant tell ya how handy that is, just back the truck in and pick up anything you want, a pallet of plywood, a 1500lb jointer, etc.

Put down 2x4 PT sleepers flat, 12inches on center and then added a plywood floor, ran conduit under the ply to give me power in the middle of the shop. Hope to put some salvaged maple over that ply if I end up getting it from an old mill..... Have a 200amp service with lots of receptacles. It ended up being 78 by 32 outside dimensions, about 2400sqft with another 1200ft of storage upstairs. Have set aside about 400sqft for a finishing room I havent built yet. Still need to get water down to the shop and trim the windows.. Outside its Vinyl siding and trim so its pretty much maintence free.

Hope to get some pictures of it up soon. Its a dream come true, worked out of an 800sq ft shop for years and it worked, but always wanted more room.

 

[DaveD]

You could do 2x6 on 24" centers but I just think its a much better quality job at 16" centers. I'm also a plywood guy but OSB on the walls and roof would be ok.

Think about roughing in for a bathroom and slop sink and water spigots even if you don't want to finish them now.

If you also work on cars (and maybe if you don't) put some trailer hitch sleeves in the concrete so you can mount tools/'stuff' on 2x2x 1/4 wall tubing and just slip them into the sleeves in the floor. This works well for people that have tubing benders, etc.

Put some sleeves in the slab so you can get electric, water, phone, etc from outside the slab easily.Have we spent all your money yet?

The beam for the crane is a nice touch although spanning 30' isn't going to be cheap. You could also rough in for a swing arm crane by setting a piece of 6" or 8" diameter 'steam pipe' in a big mass of concrete next to a wall.

Remember the building codes are a 'minimum'. Think long term quality as far as your budget will allow.

 

[jmauldin]

Rick,
Welcome to the termites! Now we have another one in Surry Co. Let's get together soon. Give me a call at 789-9764
My shop is 20x30 but with 8' ceilings. I wouldn't even consider 7' and would prefer 9'. Would be glad to show it to you. And to see some of your work.
Jim in Mayberry

 

[rbdoby]

Well ain't us Surry County boys coming out of the woodwork

Woodworking is not my profession but I have built several big projects in my 22' x 34' shop. I'm about 1 mile from K&G Building Material on 268. You're welcome to tour my shop any time if you can stand the mess. I'm in the phone book.

Rick Doby

 

[rherrell]

Wow, alot of good stuff! I get the hint, NO 7' WALLS !
However I am going with a metal bldg. to match my existing 12'x16' shed and for the instant gratification.
I already planned on a 100 amp sub-panel and LOTS of light. Also propane heat and window AC.
I'm going shopping on Sat. and I'll let you know what I come up with.
Thanks,
Rick

 

[jeff...]

I'm no professional, but can speak for the short comings of my own shop. it's 16' x 32' - I like the length, but the width is to be desired. If it were say 24' x 32' it sure would be much better. Ceilings are 9' which is fine, ofcourse higher would be better. DC pipe will be over head once I get a DC. One more sore spot, My shop has too many or to big of windows. I'm amazed how windows suck up wall space. Due to width of my shop I can really only work with 12' long lumber and that's a real challange, 8' and under is much easier to manhover.

The largest thing I built in my shop was approx a 12' x 8' x 16" pantry. I dry fit it in the shop and re-assembled in the house. It was a real challange finding space to machine lumber and assemble at the same time. I had a re-arrange machines, I'm glad most of my machines are on wheels... and of my own doing, I need to get the non-related wood working out of there (son's - 1973 plymouth scamp project, including dis-assembled small block 318, garden tools, etc...), A lumber rack that takes about 14' of wall space floor to ceiling and oh, not to mention all the cut off's piled here and there - geeze. A wise teenager once told me "a clean shop is a happy shop" at the moment mine is very unhappy indeed, I need to get busy!

When I build a new shop there will be several things about the structure I will do differenlty. But for now I do with what I have the price was right and it works well for most small to medium sized projects.

Here's a link to shop construction if your interested, although I don't think it will offer much insight on what to do, but should be some help of what NOT to do, conserning wall layout. http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/whats.going/other.stuff/2421-my.shop.html

 

[HardRock]

I have to agrre with every one here, you can't get the ceiling too high. My garage ceiling is 17' AFF and I can tell you it sure is nice being able to swing around full length lumber and conduit and nit having to worry about it.

I would also avoid the wood floor if you can.