Best Pricing locations for dust collection piping/hoses

[DSWalker]

I'm at a point that I want to start running some dust collection tubes/pipes.

I know that I want to run 6" from my 2 HP Grizzly DC as far as I can take it and then break down to 4" as needed. I've read that SD [sewer drainage] pipe may be the least expensive option? Would it be best to go to a plumbing supply or big box, or other suggestions are welcome?

Next concern is the final connections to machines. I have a decent size box from woodcraft [it came with the DC, I bought it used] full of blast gates, and various fittings and connectors.

What flexible hoses do you recommend to attach from the 'hard' pipes to the fittings on the machines?

Feel free to post photos of your set ups to give me ideas on how to run mine. I know to keep the angles on turns a low as possible and minimal.

Machines to be connected:

• Table saw
• Band Saw
• Jointer
• Planer
• RAS

 

[LeftyTom]

I have a 1HP DC and use 3-way split (only use 2 of those), using only 4" flexihose. Someone will be along shortly that can give you pointers.

 

[golfdad]

David if you go with the sewer and drain pipe the big box stores will only have up to 4”. Anything larger needs to be bought at a plumbing supply house. If you drop to 4” pvc toward the machine you can get a connector that goes from PVC to flex hose.

 

[mquan01]

This is exactly what I did. I used the 6" metal ducting (Big box) with adapters to go to 4" sewer piping, with only flex tube at the every end.... I will post a picture a little later today

 

[patlaw]

You might want to buy a variety of reducers and adapters. None of them seems to fit as expected.

 

[sawman101]

I ran 4" sewer pipe from my HF 2 h.p. collector 2 splits, longest run about 22'. I used the green pipe from Lowes. Bought all my fittings and flex hose from Klingspors. The whole system connects to 2 router tables, table saw, 2 band saws, 2 lathes, surface sander, planer, jointer, and a floor sweep. Will be extending it to other sanding machines in the near future. There is a separator in line before the DC. I use a large trash can cover from Klingspors on a large Brute trash can making it a 2 stage system. It has never plugged. I recommend checking each blast gate to make sure they close completely before installing. If you want a remote switch be sure to wire the DC circuit with 220v as there are no remotes for 110v that will stand up to the start up draw of the 2 h.p. DC over a short period of time. My $100 Jet remote switch didn't last a year.

 

[Sean McCurdy]

I'm not sure if it's the "best" price, but I did see 6" SD35 PVC pipe and fittings at Lowes in Garner a few weeks back.

 

[DSWalker]

I'm not sure if it's the "best" price, but I did see 6" SD35 PVC pipe and fittings at Lowes in Garner a few weeks back.

Thanks, I'll check it out there.

 

[Bas]

Your most expensive fitting is going to be the 6" Wye. Everything else (45s, reducers, caps, etc.) is a lot more affordable.

Shipping can add a lot to the cost. Best overall price I've seen online is midlandhardware.com, but it pays to shop around. Jet.com has some good prices as well periodically.
Lowe's does not have 6" S&D fittings in every store, but if the Garner store has them it's worth a look.

 

[llucas]

David
I went through this same struggle a few years back and settled on PVC D2729 sewer and drain pipe 6" white...The green 6" is heavier and a little pricier. The green is the SDR 35.
The local manufacturer is Silver-line in Asheville and Lowes has ordered some for me in the past, although they don't usually carry the 6" size.
I got the bulk of it from Agri-Supply in Clayton at a pretty good price about 4 years ago, but I see the cost is almost double now of what I paid.
The fittings are still carried by Lowes....but make sure to test the fit as some of the schedule 40 is a different size from the D2729.
BTW the connectors are the expensive part of the deal.
Here is the Silver-line webpage listing the D2729...I think you can contact them for a price estimate, or get Lowes to check it out for you.
https://www.slpipe.com/product/sewer-pipe/#d-2729-belled-end-10-ft
I really like how easy this pipe is to install and has worked very well for me.

 

[gmakra]

Have you considered using round sheet metal duct?
It is inexpensive, it light and it will ground any static electricity.

 

[JimD]

I am starting to think of an installation of a similar size system and did some googling. Bottom line is I think that metal may be a little cheaper if you want to have a primary line in 6 inch. Lowe's shows $35 for a 10 foot stick of sewer and drain pipe 6 inches in diameter. I think it was on Home Depot's website I saw 6 inch metal for $11 for 5 feet. I checked wyes (including 6x6x4 and 6x6x6), 90 degree elbows and reducers. In each case, the metal fitting was a little less than the plastic. I found some fittings cheaper at other websites than the big box prices but didn't check with shipping. For pipe, I think you need a local suppler.

I used small, I think it was 3 inch, metal pipe to get my dryer vent outside. It comes flat and you have to make the connection. It was 5 years ago but my memory is that the first piece was a major pain and the second significantly easier. It probably needs tape over the seam too so that is more time. The PVC would be a little simpler to work with. But a few more dollars. I've had a total PVC setup before with a 1hp DC and it does pick up dust from static. I haven't had a metal tubed setup but I think you could ground it and eliminate that. I saw something where somebody tested air velocity of metal versus PVC and the metal was a little higher. But I don't remember where I saw it.

My tentative decision is to try metal. Big box store seems to be a reasonable way to get it. But it may be worth checking a wholesale plumbing place for the plastic, that might make it cheaper. But it looks like the price isn't going to be that different.

 

[Bas]

PVC has gone up in price quite a bit over the years. Metal is probably going to be cheaper overall. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the PVC pipe setup I have, but if I were starting from scratch today, I'd probably go metal due to cost.

One issue with metal is that HVAC fittings are all crimped the wrong way - they're meant for air blowing to the registers, not sucking air from the blast gates. Dust can get stuck as a result. I don't know how big of an issue this is in practice, but I know a number of people have changed the crimping to avoid this. Metal also has sharp edges that can cause some nasty cuts.

PVC does attract some dust, but I've not really found it to be an issue. Once a year I vacuum the pipes to get the majority of it. As for static electricity, there's always a plastic hose running from the blast gate to the tool. If your shop is prone to static electricity, you'll probably have issues with the hose even if you're using metal duct work. But metal is probably less prone to a zap. I have zero issues with static electricity in my basement shop, but it's climate controlled.

 

[gmakra]

Use pop rivets to join the duct and the reason for this is the rounded heads will not build up accumulations like screws.
Seal the job with a roll of aluminum duct closure tape and your done.

 

[DSWalker]

This is exactly what I did. I used the 6" metal ducting (Big box) with adapters to go to 4" sewer piping, with only flex tube at the every end.... I will post a picture a little later today
View attachment 29452View attachment 29453View attachment 29454View attachment 29455

Thanks for posting the photos. These are helpful. I'll be looking into the metal ducting as well.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

OK, here is the deal, for 2 hp or greater (if you want reasonable CFM):

• Run 6" duct- ALL THE WAY from the DC to each MACHINE, DO NOT STEP DOWN to 4".

• If using a cyclone have at least 30" of straight duct leading into it.

• Design your layout like a Christmas tree- 45° branches from a trunk. Avoid 90° bends (avoid running pipe around the perimeter of the shop.)

• Use 45° wyes NEVER a "T"

• If using metal, use true 45° wyes not low velocity wyes which have a big open space that causes turbulence and static pressure (reduces CFM).

• If using PCV, use ASTM 2729, also called thin-walled S&D, "solid perf," "gravity drain" and a few other names. You won't find it in Big Box Stores. Get it from plumbing (Ferguson) or irrigation suppliers.

• Do not use Sched 40 - way too expensive, especially fittings, and way too heavy

• Don't use SDR -35 (ASTM 3034) (also called sewer and drain) if you can avoid it. It often comes in blue/green at big box stores. Same O.D. as ASTM 2729 but thicker wall and heavier and costs more.

• Fittings- Use SDR 34/35, ASTM-3034, 3035, or 2729 fittings- 6" fittings (not pipe) are available at Lowes (and other sources) in the irrigation section not the plumbing section. Sched 40 fittings are the wrong size for ASTM 2729 (and SDR 35). Note: you might find some of these fittings in styrene plastic, not PVC- that's OK.

• Friction fit only, no glue/PVC adhesive needed- you'll reconfigure sooner or later. To help seal, after assembly apply a thin bead of silicone caulk (NOT latex nor latex blend caulk) to the outside of each joint. Use one small/short screw if you must. Silicone doesn't adhere to PVC very well so it is easy to remove- once set, you can peel it off or rub it off easily with a finger. Since joints are under suction, silicone stays in place and seals perfectly.

• Grounding is a waste of time and not necessary. PVC is a non-conductor so grounding will only remove the static charge at the exact spot of the wire, not from an inch away! Static can be a nuisance for sure, but in a home DC it is not a fire or explosion hazard. Google "Dr. Rod Cole, static shock" to read about it. If you want to ground something, ground the spiral wire in the really short length of 6" flex hose you should use to connect the duct to your machines. Static should decrease as the duct becomes seasoned.

 

[creasman]

When I ran my ducts a few years ago I found I had more time than money. I was also a bit height challenged and didn't want to take up more room than necessary with the overhead ducting. My solution was to make the overhead ducting using melamine and tile board.

Coming off the dust collector is standard 6" sewer pipe that I got from Fergusons. The pipe is not so expensive, but the fittings are. Going overhead I used an HVAC metal adapter to go from 6" round to 4"x12" rectangular. The overhead duct that forms the main trunk of the system is approximately 3.5" x 10" internally, which fits nicely into the 4"x12" rectangular fitting. The rectangular duct was made using melamine for the sides (cut in strips 3.5" wide) and then tile board for the top and bottom (cut in strips 11.5" wide). Where I needed to curve I made forms to glue up 1/4" HDF with the inside piece being tile board.

It sounds more complicated in writing than it actually was to do once I got started. The cost per foot was a fraction of what I would have spent on other types of ducting.

I built the whole system (including the cyclone, ducting and blast gates) following information found on Bill Pentz's web site (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/). The system comes on automatically whenever I open one of the gates. It has a 5HP 240V motor that was recommended. I've used it for 10+ years and it works great. The only issue I've had to date was I had to replace the starting capacitor on the motor last year. Probably the best time/money I've spent on my shop was putting in a good dust collection system.

Jim

P.S. I agree with the previous reply that grounding is a waste of time unless you're in a high-dust environment (like a flour mill). I have never had any issues with static electricity and can touch the duct without any shock. That might not be the case if it were metal, though.

 

[Charlie]

Jim,

We think alike. My first house (1968) had a basement with a 7' ceiling. The round duct work for the forced air heating system was too low. I replaced it all with home made rectangular duct. 3/4" pine and 1/8" masonites. It is still in use today.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Going overhead I used an HVAC metal adapter to go from 6" round to 4"x12" rectangular. . . . The rectangular duct was made using melamine for the sides (cut in strips 3.5" wide) and then tile board for the top and bottom (cut in strips 11.5" wide). Where I needed to curve I made forms to glue up 1/4" HDF with the inside piece being tile board.

I built the whole system (including the cyclone, ducting and blast gates) following information found on Bill Pentz's web site (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/).

Jim

As the saying goes, you get what you pay for!

I know cost can be a big consideration to many, but if you had carefully read Bill Pentz, you would have known that running rectangular duct is just about the worst thing you could have possibly done for a dust collector (it is fine for low velocity HVAC)! The inside surface area of your rectangular duct is greater than the round duct it leads into so has much higher friction (inside perimeter of 6" round duct = 18.85 in. vs inside perimeter of 3.5" X 10" rectangular duct = 27" so your rectangular duct has almost 100 sq. in. more surface area for each foot of duct!!!! ). Also, flow is not uniform across a rectangular cross-section and the corners (all four of them) generate an unbelievable amount of turbulence. All of this really increases static pressure (SP) / destroys CFM. Dust and chips settling out of the air stream can also be a problem due to the impact of duct design on flow and velocity.

You would have been better rolling thin melamine, high pressure laminate, or any thin, but rigid material, into a tube or using large cardboard carpet tubes. Compare cross-sectional areas: 6" round duct = 28.27 sq. in. vs 3.5" X 10" rectangular duct = 35 sq. in. or 4" X 12" rectangular duct = 48 sq. in. If you can find the static pressure per linear foot of rectangular duct for the size you are using (and DC velocities) and plot that on a fan curve- you will be shocked (horrified?) how much less CFM your setup generates than if you used round duct. Of course, if all you want to do is chip collection, that is fine.

 

[creasman]

I agree that round is better for the reasons you state but I did read Pentz's website from end to end -- several times. That was 10+ years ago and it may have changed, so I don't know what it says now. I did the calculations and came to the conclusion that for my application rectangular would be sufficient given the lengths of the runs and needed flow.

As you state it's not as simple as comparing circular area to rectangular area. Shape matters. However, if your system has the pull and you go large enough it will work. I have the equivalent of a 6" run for the main trunks and drop down to a 4" round pipe for most of the tools. The table saw is the main exception, where I stay with a 6" all the way. The longest run ends at a turning lathe. I often run the system when I'm sanding a turning and it pulls out this fine dust without any problems.

One problem I do find is that most tools are not well sealed. Even with a dust collector attached to the machine's port there are still many places for the chips and dust to escape. For example, my table saw is an older model without any sort of dust port. I had to build this into the base and found it helpful to also use insulating spray foam to seal around the table top and base. That made a big difference.

Another component of dust collection in my shop is a homemade air filter. I have cabinets along one wall and rather than run these to the ceiling (where I'd have to use a ladder to reach the top shelf) I ran duct work in the soffit to filter the air. At the far end I mounted a fan I recycled from an HVAC unit to draw out the air and placed two 10"x20" filters in the soffit (one at the opposite end and one in the middle). If I'm using some hand tool that produces a lot of dust I'll run this fan. It does a quick job of cleaning out the air, same as one of the ceiling mount commercial units.

As I've gotten on in wood working I've started to value hand tools and honing my skills with these. These don't make must dust, just shavings and some chips. I personally find my satisfaction goes up as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up my table saw, bandsaw, jointer, etc. But, I am using them less.