A Finish For Walnut

[Rick_B]

I'm in the process of building some end tables from walnut and am at the point of needing to decide what finish to use. In the past I have built some small boxes from walnut and used a process from Bob Flexner (I think) that he called "finishing the finish". Essentially it was sand to 180 or 220, 2 to 3 coats of shellac (the shellac was used as a filler as well as the top coat), wet sand with a MS lubricant 400 to 800/1000 grit. The pros of this process are that it gave a result I liked in terms of appearance and texture/polish. The cons are it is time consuming, difficult to do on an assembled project with lots of mortise/tenon joinery and and I'm not sure shellac is the best choice of finish for an end table.

Here is a picture of the project - nothing is glued up and the shelf/top/drawer are missing but it does show the joinery.

So my initial questions are:
1. What is a good finidh for walnut end tables?
2. What is the schedule/process in terms of pre-sanding, applying (no spray equipment available) and "finishing the finish"?
3. Can the process be done before assembly with appropriate masking?

I'm sure there will be many additional questions as the discussion evolves.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Jeff]

1. What is a good finidh for walnut end tables?

Dewaxed garnet shellac without anything else. Shellac gets a bad rap for being a poor finish but that isn't true. Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish over the shellac is a good choice too; easy to apply, easy to apply if necessary, and durable.

https://www.waterlox.com

2. What is the schedule/process in terms of pre-sanding, applying (no spray equipment available) and "finishing the finish"?

This can all be done before glue up (q.3) and it's a heckuva lot easier.

Pre-sand to 120-150 and apply the first few coats of shellac sealer/finish. Above 150 is overkill and a waste of time.

More shellac if you wish or Waterlox or something else. Sanding between coats isn't necessary and you don't have to go to wet sanded 400, 800, and 1000 unless you just want to do that for fun, feel, and appearance.

 

[cyclopentadiene]

If you want a wipe on Waterlox makes the grain pop with walnut.

If if you want to spray, lacquer.

 

[redknife]

Rick, great work. Beautiful.
I love Waterlox on Walnut. I use “The Woodman”’s instructions for foam brush application of Waterlox. Rather than copy the steps, here is the link to the video series: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqiLQvJmvxQ
I also like the “finish the finish” approach and spray finishes, but this method of hand application of Waterlox for Walnut really works.

 

[Jeff]

+1 to Waterlox by itself too.

I only buy it in 1 quart size along with several cans of Bloxygen to prevent it from gelling up in the original container because of oxygen (protect your investment). DAMHIKT.

http://www.bloxygen.com

 

[Rick_B]

Thanks Chris - they were very instructive videos. I have used waterlox mqany years ago and for some reason got away from it. I'm leaning towards waterlox for this project. I may have missed it in the videos - is waterlox a barrier to glue up? IOW would have to mask tenons and moritises if I used waterlox before assembly?

Thanks
Rick

 

[Ed D]

Beautiful walnut! I would suggest be sure to test your finishing schedule on scrap from that same wood and adjust as necessary before committing yourself.

Ed

 

[Rick_B]

Well a little internet research seems to indicate that waterlox and glue is not a good idea. More importantly, I stumbled across the ASKWOODMAN web page and he has a large notice the due to a change by waterlox he no longer recommends or uses waterlox. That was/in 2015. So now I feel like I'm back to square one.

Rick

 

[redknife]

You’d be best to mask off glue surfaces such as mortises/tenons etc.

 

[Jeff]

Well a little internet research seems to indicate that waterlox and glue is not a good idea. More importantly, I stumbled across the ASKWOODMAN web page and he has a large notice the due to a change by waterlox he no longer recommends or uses waterlox. That was/in 2015. So now I feel like I'm back to square one.

Rick

How about a link to that AskWoodman with his reasons for the downside?

You aren't back to square one so disregard his yada, yada, yada so called "best advice" and use Waterlox if you wish. I've used a lot of Waterlox without problems post 2015 and will continue to do so. Maybe Waterlox removed their endorsement of his video stuff for some reason?

 

[Rick_B]

Hey Jeff - here is a link to the page I stumbled across - see his statement near the top of the page
http://askwoodman.com/2010/04/30/the-best-woodworking-finish/

I think you are correct - lots of folks recommending waterlox so it may be something political like endorsements.

Do you use the waterlox original?

Thanks
Rick

 

[redknife]

Hey Jeff - here is a link to the page I stumbled across - see his statement near the top of the page
http://askwoodman.com/2010/04/30/the-best-woodworking-finish/

I think you are correct - lots of folks recommending waterlox so it may be something political like endorsements.

Do you use the waterlox original?

Thanks
Rick

rick- read this document from Waterlox about their VOC compliant vs original. https://www.waterlox.com/project-help/guide?id=547bc7c9-c970-4321-9049-2834130fde19&q=
I have used the original fwiw.

 

[Jeff]

Hey Jeff - here is a link to the page I stumbled across - see his statement near the top of the page
http://askwoodman.com/2010/04/30/the...orking-finish/

That 2015 statement is without any supporting information from him as to why he doesn't use or recommend Waterlox anymore. A sour grapes Waterlox boycott for whatever reasons and not worth a grain of salt.

I continue to use the original formula without reservations. NC law doesn't require the low VOC product but I'd have no problem using it if I wanted to try it.

I'm an organic chemist and know about organic solvents and low VOC alternatives. Here are the Material safety data sheets (MSDS) for the original and the low VOC. The Original contains a petroleum based solvent (74% Stoddard solvent which is similar to mineral spirits). The low VOC contains <1% Stoddard solvent which has been replaced with 4-chlorobenzotrifluoride (65%, a widely used additive to paints, etc).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachlorobenzotrifluoride

Adding this 2012 tidbit as an afterthought.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/...-blog/the-trouble-with-voc-compliant-finishes

 

[cyclopentadiene]

I have used product before the reformulation and after. I generally use the satin as opposed to the high gloss. The product has a slightly more glossy finish with the new formulation but this is readliy knowcked back using 1000 grit sandpaper after the final coat. I really enjoyed the smell of the older formulation and the newer formulation is a little boring.

 

[bash]

Rick, No valid input on the finish (I learn from these discussions), but very attractive tables you have in process there. Can't wait to see pictures of the finished products.

 

[Rick_B]

I'm still leaning towards waterlox. I'm wondering what the thoughts are regarding finishing before or after assembly? And if before what have folks done to mask mortises?

Thanks
Rick

 

[Jeff]

I'm still leaning towards waterlox. I'm wondering what the thoughts are regarding finishing before or after assembly? And if before what have folks done to mask mortises?

Thanks
Rick

My usual way is with painter's tape is to mask the mortise lengthwise with a strip a bit wider and longer than the mortise and then wrap the tenons in the tape too. Sand and pre-finish, then the glue up. A little final sanding and more finishing is optional but at least you won't have nooks, crannys, and corners to aggravate you.

 

[Wyatt Co.]

Waxilit.

 

[Jeff]

Waxilit.

Tell us how you'd use it to answer the OPs questions.

 

[ncfromnc]

Waterlox is good. I use a homemade.....3-2-1.
3 parts mineral spirits
2 parts poly
1 part boiled linseed oil
I don't understand the reference to mortise and tennon joinery....maybe because it's hard to get a quick drying finish (like shellac) on evenly and near the joinery. 3-2-1 will help tremendously with that ......but it takes a while to dry and you have to let each coat dry about a day. 4-6 coats....build up to what you like. with the poly component, you can choose glossy, semi-gloss, or satin.
I would also completely assemble and then do the finish. For a large number of reasons..mostly having to do with having a good result. There are many aspects of woodworking where "short cuts" often take longer than doing it the "right way"......this is one of them.