4' Round Dining table

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old-delta

Wes
Senior User
I would like some advice or direction on building a 4' round dining pedestal table. The wood of choice my daughter wants is Wenge Wood. Would you do a Wenge veneer or solid? I suggested to her to make the pedestal out of a cheaper species since she may want to paint it and have the top natural. Recommended thickness? Also I don't have a large clamp table so gluing up will be a challenge. Not sure how I'm going to pull off the pedestal since I sold my lathe (mistake). If there's anyone with experience in pedestal building or can assist in making one I'd obviously compensate your time. Thank you in advance for any good advice. Wes
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
I would probably lean towards veneering because that will allow you to use a more dimensionally stable choice for the substrate (such as MDH, HDF, or plywood), thus avoiding much of the dimensional changes with humidity so it always remains round and be less prone to possible cupping. If I were making my own veneer then I would go on the thicker side (perhaps 1/16”), otherwise you will be limited by what is commercially available. I would want to use solid wood for the edges — in the form of a multi-sided polygon, such as an octagon, cut into a circle so you have predominantly facegrain all the way around — since edges take the majority of the abuse when it comes to tables and solid wood best hides that damage and protects the veneer. Remember that both the top and bottom will need (preferably identical) veneering so that the forces remain in balance to minimize unwanted movement. If a cheaper veneer is used for the underside then the substituted species will need to be carefully selects such that it’s movement characteristics closely match the top-side veneer so that both move similarly with seasonal humidity changes (veneering both faces identically is the easiest choice if cost permits).

The simplest way to clamp that much area when veneering is through the use of a vacuum pump setup (other a mechanical vacuum pump, or a Venturi if you have a large air compressor) and a vacuum bag as that will permit you to evenly clamp the entire surface area of the table face in one go with up to around 13 pounds per square inch (or about 12 tons per face distributed over the 48” table). With bags that large you do need a decently sized vacuum pump or a very slow setting resin such that the full vacuum is achieved well before the resin begins to cure and setup.

I don’t have any suggestions for the base in the absence of a lathe if it must be a turned form. But if a simple column style base would suffice then there are options like bending wood (plywood with many slits cut into one side at regular intervals to allow it to bend in one plain). You could also cut out many wedges of solid wood that have been carefully cut with either a bandsaw or router using a profile template, then you could glue all those wedges into a hollow round form to construct your column and, finally, smooth the corners with sandpaper or rasps to closely approximate a round column — or leave it as a “circular” polygon if you like the look — the result would closely resemble a solid turned column but at a fraction of the weight.

That’s all I have to offer in the way of suggestions. It will be interesting to read everyone else’s thoughts as well, just be sure to post a photo of your completed work!
 

Henry W

Henry
Corporate Member
Osborne and I believe Adams both sell complete pedestal bases for tables - available in many species and styles. I doubt that wenge is one of the choices. Not inexpensive, but also not expensive (compared to a lathe that is).
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Interesting choice of wood species by your daughter and why did she choose Wenge? Where are you going to get Wenge? Alternatively you could get a domestic lumber species locally and dye the table top black before a sealer finish coat(s).

You could make a square top out of solid Wenge and then scribe and cut a 4' diameter circle from that. That's about 21 bf of quarter sawn Wenge 4/4 lumber.

http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/hardwoods/exotic_hardwoods/exotic_wood/wenge_lumber/wenge_wood.html

https://www.wood-database.com/wenge/


Wenge_table.jpg


Pedestal base kits are available from Osborne and some are available in soft maple for painting.

https://www.osbornewood.com/table-pedestals.aspx
 
Last edited:

Bill Clemmons

Bill
Corporate Member
Osborne and I believe Adams both sell complete pedestal bases for tables - available in many species and styles. I doubt that wenge is one of the choices. Not inexpensive, but also not expensive (compared to a lathe that is).

+1 to Henry's suggestion. I used Adams many years ago and was satisfied.
 

NCGrimbo

NCGrimbo
Corporate Member
I would definitely look at plywood for the top the adding a vernier edging. I've got a similar sized poker table that I made at home and cutting the circular top for it was easy using a router jig. As for the base, it doesn't have to be turned. My pedestal base has a hexagon shaped bottom with support beams running vertically to another hex at the top which is attached to the table. The bottom hex has feet attached to it. Google "pedestal base" and then click on the "Images" option and check out all the different styles that are not turned. Unless your daughter is dead set against anything other than a turned pedestal, I'd show her some images of something you can make easily.
 

Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
Personal opinion, I believe exotic and expensive wood should be veneered if possible. Something like a table top is a great example. There is no advantage to using solid wood and the money saved can be considerable.

You could consider building the pedestal as a multi-sided structure rather than round.
 

JeffH

Jeff
Senior User
I've been doing some work with wenge recently. A few thoughts:

-- It's a fairly brittle wood, so be cautious about tearout at edges. If you do any router trimming, you might want to think about down-spiral bits and slow feed rates. Also good dust collection, because it creates a fine dust, almost as bad as padauk.

-- Very hard wood. If you're doing a fair amount of milling work with it, particularly with solid wood, keep an eye on quickly dulling tool blades.

-- For gluing, I'd recommend wiping surfaces with an appropriate solvent just before gluing, to help keep oil off them and get better adhesion.

-- If you're looking for a very smooth surface, be prepared to use a lot of grain filler.

If you can use it as a veneer, that would probably reduce all of the above cautions. It would also probably reduce the weight of the finished table.
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
I've been doing some work with wenge recently. A few thoughts:

-- It's a fairly brittle wood, so be cautious about tearout at edges. If you do any router trimming, you might want to think about down-spiral bits and slow feed rates. Also good dust collection, because it creates a fine dust, almost as bad as padauk.

For most of the above one typically wants an up-cut spiral bit. An up-cut spiral both pulls the router (whether handheld or table) firmly against the wood (rather than trying to push the two apart) and draws the waste into either the router or router table where dust collection can easily capture the majority of the dust (provided, in the case of handheld use, that the router incorporates a dust collection port).

Down-cut spirals on a handheld router will push waste towards the floor, where it’s usually difficult to capture in real-time and on a router table it will launch the dust upwards and into the air. Down-cut spiral bits also tend to generate lift that tends to want to separate the router and wood from one another and requires more careful control (particularly if the bit catches on some stubborn grain as either the router or wood can forcefully kick upwards very suddenly, a type of vertical kickback not ordinarily encountered when using routers with other bit styles so something to be aware of).

However, if one has no means of real-time dust collection when using a router freehand then such is about the only time one ordinarily wishes to consider using a down-cut spiral since then the waste is pushed down to the floor where you can vacuum it later. However, the up-cut spiral bit is usually a far better investment as they excel at so many types of operations, including the routing of blind holes (such as mortising) and also work best with dust collection, both freehand and in a router table.

For clarity, the label of “up-cut” or “down-cut” is relative to the router where up-cut draws waste towards the router body and down-cut pushes waste away from the router body. This is one of those terms that can be easily confused because the directions of “up” versus “down” becomes inverted when switching between freehand routing and a router table, but if you think in terms of the router body being “up” — or think of it in terms of freehand router use — then it is easier to remember what the two terms reference. Or at least that has long been my memory aid.

Hopefully this adequately covers the pros and cons associated with both up-ciput and down-cut spiral bits so one can choose whichever will work best for their intended projects.

In a high-wear (high silica content) wood one will want to invest in a good quality carbide spiral bit and the greater the diameter the better as the greater the diameter the less tear out one will incur because the bit shears more perpendicular to the wood than a narrower bit would have. A good general purpose spiral bit would be the 1/2” carbide up-cut spiral bit both in terms of price and applicability to general projects (a 1/4” up-cut spiral is the next most useful size in terms of general use in my experience).

For cutting the circular shape one may also use a bandsaw or jigsaw with a circle cutting jig. It’s pretty essy to make a circle cutting jig for the bandsaw that makes cutting large diameter circles easy without throwing a lot of dust in the air. Routers also work very well with circle cutting jigs. As with most things in woodworking there are multiple ways to get the job done so use whichever works best for the individual or project.
 

JeffH

Jeff
Senior User
For most of the above one typically wants an up-cut spiral bit. An up-cut spiral both pulls the router (whether handheld or table) firmly against the wood (rather than trying to push the two apart) and draws the waste into either the router or router table where dust collection can easily capture the majority of the dust (provided, in the case of handheld use, that the router incorporates a dust collection port).

Down-cut spirals on a handheld router will push waste towards the floor, where it’s usually difficult to capture in real-time and on a router table it will launch the dust upwards and into the air. Down-cut spiral bits also tend to generate lift that tends to want to separate the router and wood from one another and requires more careful control (particularly if the bit catches on some stubborn grain as either the router or wood can forcefully kick upwards very suddenly, a type of vertical kickback not ordinarily encountered when using routers with other bit styles so something to be aware of).

However, if one has no means of real-time dust collection when using a router freehand then such is about the only time one ordinarily wishes to consider using a down-cut spiral since then the waste is pushed down to the floor where you can vacuum it later. However, the up-cut spiral bit is usually a far better investment as they excel at so many types of operations, including the routing of blind holes (such as mortising) and also work best with dust collection, both freehand and in a router table.

For clarity, the label of “up-cut” or “down-cut” is relative to the router where up-cut draws waste towards the router body and down-cut pushes waste away from the router body. This is one of those terms that can be easily confused because the directions of “up” versus “down” becomes inverted when switching between freehand routing and a router table, but if you think in terms of the router body being “up” — or think of it in terms of freehand router use — then it is easier to remember what the two terms reference. Or at least that has long been my memory aid.

Hopefully this adequately covers the pros and cons associated with both up-ciput and down-cut spiral bits so one can choose whichever will work best for their intended projects.

In a high-wear (high silica content) wood one will want to invest in a good quality carbide spiral bit and the greater the diameter the better as the greater the diameter the less tear out one will incur because the bit shears more perpendicular to the wood than a narrower bit would have. A good general purpose spiral bit would be the 1/2” carbide up-cut spiral bit both in terms of price and applicability to general projects (a 1/4” up-cut spiral is the next most useful size in terms of general use in my experience).

For cutting the circular shape one may also use a bandsaw or jigsaw with a circle cutting jig. It’s pretty essy to make a circle cutting jig for the bandsaw that makes cutting large diameter circles easy without throwing a lot of dust in the air. Routers also work very well with circle cutting jigs. As with most things in woodworking there are multiple ways to get the job done so use whichever works best for the individual or project.

Looks my responding post got wiped out in the course of site issues, so here's the short version: my recommendation for using a down spiral bit was not related to dust collection; sorry if both topics got into the same bullet point, but they both had to do with the brittleness of the species. It is very subject to tear-out, so a down spiral bit will produce a much cleaner surface edge.
 

FredP

Fred
Corporate Member
Veneer would be my choice over a stable substrate. I see you are in wake forest. I have a lathe you can do the pedestal on if you want. I'm about 15 minutes away from W F.
 

old-delta

Wes
Senior User
Thanks for the suggestions on the table project. I'm going to make the top from Wenge-wood and do a round pedestal. Top will be natural, pedestal white made of soft maple (to keep cost down), matching top inlays on the on the base feet. It'll be a while but I'll post a picture or two when finished. This will be my first ever round dining table.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Thanks for the suggestions on the table project. I'm going to make the top from Wenge-wood and do a round pedestal. Top will be natural, pedestal white made of soft maple (to keep cost down), matching top inlays on the on the base feet. It'll be a while but I'll post a picture or two when finished. This will be my first ever round dining table.

Where are you going to get Wenge wood, not Wenge veneer or black dye to look like Wenge?

How will you make the pedestal and feet? Then painted white?
 

old-delta

Wes
Senior User
The Wenge-wood is from the Hardwood Store. Pedestal I'll turn (borrowing a lathe) I'll cut some feet on the saw. She wanted the pedestal white to contrast the top. I am using solid on the top for couple reasons. One-she wants solid. Two-if she ever needs to refinish top she can without ever being concerned with sanding through a veneer. no chance of a veneer ever delaminating. Besides, this is something that's likely to be passed down.
Not only that it's going to be exposed to much use and humidity.




Where are you going to get Wenge wood, not Wenge veneer or black dye to look like Wenge?

How will you make the pedestal and feet? Then painted white?
 
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