Trying to go natural and finish a red oak cigar type box. The grain is stunning and I won't let stain hide it. Much difference in either option? I have both BLO and Tung Oil (low gloss) on hand, but I've never used them except in finish repair. Any ideas in either direction? Thanks!
Boiled Linseed or Tung Oil?
- Thread starter maomoonshiner
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I use a couple of finishes on red oak. One finish consist of equal parts of BLO, tung oil, and poly.
My favorite for red oak is equal parts of Watco Fruitwood, tung oil and poly. Sometimes I will put the first coat 100% Watco fruitwood followed by several coats of equal parts of fruitwood, tung oil, and poly.
Experiment on scrap pieces of red oak and see what you like.
My favorite for red oak is equal parts of Watco Fruitwood, tung oil and poly. Sometimes I will put the first coat 100% Watco fruitwood followed by several coats of equal parts of fruitwood, tung oil, and poly.
Experiment on scrap pieces of red oak and see what you like.
A buddy of mine recommended a 50 to 50 BLO and Mineral spirits, for the frist coat.
This actually works very well, in that the BLO really shows off the grain and the Mineral spirits helps the BLO cure out a bit quicker. Then after about 1 week you can top coat it with poly, varnish etc.
I have used this on my recent solid walnut dining room table and it came out fantastic.
This actually works very well, in that the BLO really shows off the grain and the Mineral spirits helps the BLO cure out a bit quicker. Then after about 1 week you can top coat it with poly, varnish etc.
I have used this on my recent solid walnut dining room table and it came out fantastic.
Howard Acheson or Rob (McRabbet) are a couple of the experts in this arena. However, a question:
What is the brand and labeled name of your "Tung oil"?. Many products labeled as such have no tung oil in them, and are either oil/varnish blends or just wiping varnishes.
The BLO will add amber hue, but will be slow drying. Depending on the ingredients in the tung oil, it may darken over time, or give that same amber hue to start with.
If you have some scrap from the building process, I would try some test pieces first.
The clearest finish will be a water-based (acrylic) "varnish", but the use of the box would determine if that is the most suitable.
Go
What is the brand and labeled name of your "Tung oil"?. Many products labeled as such have no tung oil in them, and are either oil/varnish blends or just wiping varnishes.
The BLO will add amber hue, but will be slow drying. Depending on the ingredients in the tung oil, it may darken over time, or give that same amber hue to start with.
If you have some scrap from the building process, I would try some test pieces first.
The clearest finish will be a water-based (acrylic) "varnish", but the use of the box would determine if that is the most suitable.
Go
I consider both BLO and Tung Oil to be primarily a wood colorant. Multiple coats of Tung Oil will eventually give you a film finish, but it's going to be a long process. Like Go mentioned, most Tung Oil finishes don't contain Tung Oil, and are more a wiping varnish.
As a wood colorant, BLO will dry much faster, but not give as much of an amber color to the wood. Both are very effective at "popping" the grain in figured woods.
A nice natural, in the wood finish, is what has been recommended. A home brew Danish Oil type finish. It's a mixture of 1 part BLO/Tung Oil, 1 part Mineral Spirits/Turpentine/Naphtha, and 1 part gloss urethane/varnish. Wipe it on and wipe it off. Apply several coats as it will start to build after a few. Buff it smooth with 0000 steel wool and some paste wax.
As smooth and natural as a baby's butt.
Dave
As a wood colorant, BLO will dry much faster, but not give as much of an amber color to the wood. Both are very effective at "popping" the grain in figured woods.
A nice natural, in the wood finish, is what has been recommended. A home brew Danish Oil type finish. It's a mixture of 1 part BLO/Tung Oil, 1 part Mineral Spirits/Turpentine/Naphtha, and 1 part gloss urethane/varnish. Wipe it on and wipe it off. Apply several coats as it will start to build after a few. Buff it smooth with 0000 steel wool and some paste wax.
As smooth and natural as a baby's butt.
Dave
Dave O has given you most of the answer. But to restate and clear up a couple of points, neither pure, 100% tung oil or boiled linseed oil is a good stand alone finish. Both are best considered colorants used to "pop" the grain in the wood. Neither provide protection or durability unless overcoated with a film finish.
Thinning either will not improve or speed up the drying of the oil. All a thinner does is to thin the oil. The thinner evaporates very quicky leaving you with unthinned oil in the wood which takes exaxtly the same amount of time to dry as it would if it was applied full strength. Thinning it does not change the molecular structure of the oil so it always has the same characteristics.
Finishes marketed as "Tung Oil Finish" are almost all a linseed oil and varnish mixture. These will provide quite a bit more protection and durability because of the varnish content.
A final point, you don't say what this item will be used for but any oil based finish will leave long time lingering odors that can permeate anything put into the box. Therefore, do not use an oil based finish on the inside of the box if anything sensitive to odor will be inside.
Thinning either will not improve or speed up the drying of the oil. All a thinner does is to thin the oil. The thinner evaporates very quicky leaving you with unthinned oil in the wood which takes exaxtly the same amount of time to dry as it would if it was applied full strength. Thinning it does not change the molecular structure of the oil so it always has the same characteristics.
Finishes marketed as "Tung Oil Finish" are almost all a linseed oil and varnish mixture. These will provide quite a bit more protection and durability because of the varnish content.
A final point, you don't say what this item will be used for but any oil based finish will leave long time lingering odors that can permeate anything put into the box. Therefore, do not use an oil based finish on the inside of the box if anything sensitive to odor will be inside.
I keep running across this all over the place:
EDIT - I use 100% tung oil, not a "tung oil finish".
The ancient Chinese used tung oil, pressed from the nut of the tung tree to waterproof ships in the early 14th Century.
Tung oil in its purest form is water and alkali resistant.
For centuries tung oil has been used for paints and waterproof coatings, and as a component of caulk and mortar. It is an ingredient in "India ink" and is commonly used for a lustrous finish on wood. In fact, the "teak oil" sold for fine furniture is usually refined tung oil. Some woodworkers consider tung oil to be one of the best natural finishes for wood.
You can search and find that info quoted by vendors, historians and woodworkers. I have only been using it for a few years, but I have buffed it to a sheen (not a mirror finish; maybe semi-gloss) and I have used it on items that got wet and had the water bead up, even though they had some wear.Tung oil in its purest form is water and alkali resistant.
For centuries tung oil has been used for paints and waterproof coatings, and as a component of caulk and mortar. It is an ingredient in "India ink" and is commonly used for a lustrous finish on wood. In fact, the "teak oil" sold for fine furniture is usually refined tung oil. Some woodworkers consider tung oil to be one of the best natural finishes for wood.
EDIT - I use 100% tung oil, not a "tung oil finish".
J
jeff...
I like the way you think - Stain is a bad 5 letter word when it comes to wood
Let me emphasize what Howard said:
but any oil based finish will leave long time lingering odors that can permeate anything put into the box.
I built a simple shop cabinet with drawers to go underneath my drill press. Finished it more than six months ago with BLO + MS. Drawers still REEK of BLO. I've kept the drawers open a bit for the gasses to escape, but it hasn't helped a lot. Now, BLO is my personal favorite cologne, but non-woodworkers may not appreciate it as much.
With stunning grain, I agree completely - don't stain it! I have stained (and likely will again) cypress, white pine and poplar that was very plain.
It stinks for longer than the stuff with carcinogens (the solvents that dry quicker) in it, but that is a trade off I will do.
It stinks for longer than the stuff with carcinogens (the solvents that dry quicker) in it, but that is a trade off I will do.
J
jeff...
Yep finally we agree - mark your calendar, this is a rare moment in time right here :gar-La;
>> The ancient Chinese used tung oil, pressed from the nut of the tung tree to waterproof ships in the early 14th Century.
Tung oil in its purest form is water and alkali resistant.
For centuries tung oil has been used for paints and waterproof coatings, and as a component of caulk and mortar. It is an ingredient in "India ink" and is commonly used for a lustrous finish on wood. In fact, the "teak oil" sold for fine furniture is usually refined tung oil. Some woodworkers consider tung oil to be one of the best natural finishes for wood.
I don't know about the Chinese but I bet it was the ONLY finish available to them. My data comes from the US Forest Service Wood Products Lab Wood Handbook which classifies pure tung oil and linseed oil as providing no water or water vapor resistance. While pure tung oil is slightly more water resistant than linseed oil, neither have any real protective qualities.
Tung oil can be applied in many thin highly rubbed out applications and some minor water resistance can be attained. But, there are so many better products that do provide water and water vapor resistance and some degree of protection that using true oils for purpose makes little sense.
Tung oil in its purest form is water and alkali resistant.
For centuries tung oil has been used for paints and waterproof coatings, and as a component of caulk and mortar. It is an ingredient in "India ink" and is commonly used for a lustrous finish on wood. In fact, the "teak oil" sold for fine furniture is usually refined tung oil. Some woodworkers consider tung oil to be one of the best natural finishes for wood.
I don't know about the Chinese but I bet it was the ONLY finish available to them. My data comes from the US Forest Service Wood Products Lab Wood Handbook which classifies pure tung oil and linseed oil as providing no water or water vapor resistance. While pure tung oil is slightly more water resistant than linseed oil, neither have any real protective qualities.
Tung oil can be applied in many thin highly rubbed out applications and some minor water resistance can be attained. But, there are so many better products that do provide water and water vapor resistance and some degree of protection that using true oils for purpose makes little sense.
In this case, it just doesn't jive with the experiences and science of museums like this:
http://cameo.mfa.org/browse/record.asp?subkey=9527
or with my personal experience. There are better finishes, but I have not had it fail to provide decent protection when I have used it. Water will still bead on a surface that has been dry for years. I don't have adequate ventilation and can't use much else and for some historic stuff, anything other than an oil finish isn't accurate.
Yes, it does. Sorry if I seem to take this argument a little personally, but even though I have only sold a handful of instruments over the last few years, the majority were oil finished. That will continue to be the case in the future and when I get my site out of the "construction phase" as I start doing more instruments, I will have a page with much the same information as the info in the link (from the Museum of Fine Art in Boston) or from the Waterlux site or other sources. I do agree there are modern finishes that are shinier, more durable and easier to apply. But when Howard says:
I won't sit by quietly. It is his opinion, not factual information and I frankly don't see anything to back up that opinion. I consider it a good durable finish and have direct experience that I base that opinion on. I will continue using and continue telling people I apply a good finish to my instruments.
I won't sit by quietly. It is his opinion, not factual information and I frankly don't see anything to back up that opinion. I consider it a good durable finish and have direct experience that I base that opinion on. I will continue using and continue telling people I apply a good finish to my instruments.
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