Very Important - Corporate Membership

[Douglas Robinson]

Steve:

I think how it is received will depend primarily on how it is presented. If you present it like you have laid it out then it may very alienate a lot of members.

However, if it is presented sort of as follows then it might be very well received:

1. NCWW is almost 4 years old;
2. User have received tremendous benefit at no cost to them;
3. Steve and Gail Coles have subsidized the site in large part including the picnic;
4. The cost of running the site is $8000/year;
5. Steps have been taken to create NCWW, Inc., which is a non-profit organization;
6. NCWW.net is a part of NCWW, Inc.;
7. Donations to NCWW, Inc. will be tax deductable when the status requirements are complete;
8. Without the creation of NCWW, Inc. NCWW could disappear if Steve so decides and/or runs out of $;
9. The steps that have been taken will ensure the future of NCWW, Inc. and the site;
10. The annual dues proposed are nominal ($10, $25, etc. /year);
11. Full website functionality will be available to everyone regardless of whether they choose to pay the NCWW, Inc. dues.

If presented properly it will be accepted by the majority of users. I speak from experience here. You can not please everyone, and yes some will not be happy. A thread discussing this topic would receive positive feedback from the majority of major posters which would also go a long way to swayng the rest.

My second 2 cents worth.

 

[Douglas Robinson]

One more thing. I implied it in my last post, but we should think about the amount of the dues if we go that way. If 10% of the membership paid @ $10 we have around $2000. That is only a quarter of the budget. Raffles will halp, but we still need more $. So either the dues need to be higher or if the implementation of dues will negatively impact donations to the extent that we can not meet the budget, then we need to scrap the idea of dues.

 

[ScottM]

So either the dues need to be higher or if the implementation of dues will negatively impact donations to the extent that we can not meet the budget, then we need to scrap the idea of dues.

Very good point Doug. I think that is what will happen.

 

[sapwood]

Excellent input, folks.

Dues could create a sense of exclusivity. And if the financial gain isn't significant, I don't see a reason to require them.

And yep, we need to repeatedly and loudly state that Corporate Membership only gives voting rights for NCWW Inc.

I have some reluctance about defining CM in hard numbers (x visits, y length of membership, z posts). Over time we may want to "tweak" the criteria. Allowing staff to define x,y and z would allow that flexibility, but possibly not meet legal requirements. Can we allow the staff to make exceptions to the CM numbers??? For example, a CM might have family illness, work situations, or travel that would preclude the ability to maintain the visit/post requirement. Also exceptions could arise whereas NCWWer has an opportunity to accept someone for their unique skill set . . . like a Development Director :confused_

Roger

 

[Bas]

Well, I don't still don't like it.

Liking it is not required . You asked for feedback. As the only board member, you get to decide what you want to do.

The $10 number even feels more wrong than $100. The idea was that anyone can afford $10 so it would not be a financial burden. It would just make sure people are committed to the site. Well if anyone can afford it, then it doesn't show much committment to me.

I think it will make a difference. It's like voting. Everyone has an opinion on the economy/ foreign policy/ energy policy/ immigration etc. etc. But, come election day, not everyone votes. Registering beforehand takes commitment, you can't just go vote on a whim.

I ran a photo club on high school. It was free - school provided the space and equipment, you just had to buy the consumables. There were many "members", but only 30-40% were really serious. The rest only showed up once or twice a year, abused the equipment, left a mess etc. It was a royalpain. When I took over, I added a $5 yearly membership fee - but you got $10 in photopaper for it. Membership dropped by 50% overnight. So did the problems.

But I suspect the perception coming at this time will still be that we are charging dues to get full use of the web site.

Hopefully, that can be avoided with lots and lots of communication. But yes, people may confuse "Corporate member" with "Registered user". Not sure if that can ever be avoided.

An entirely different approach: To be a corporate member, only dues are required. Not active web site participation. I seriously doubt anyone who isn't active on the site would even want to become a member. So the actual people wouldn't change. The upside is that without a linkage, there might be fewer misconceptions that the web site is only for those who pay.

A hybrid approach could be to charge dues at a higher level (say $100), which can be waived or reduced if you're an active member, participate in a demonstration at Klingspor, organize a picnic, hold a jig workshop, run a raffle etc. It would give the corporation a way to reward those who do work.

Just some more ideas to further complicate things :gar-La;

 

[Douglas Robinson]

What might help here is some historical data. Steve can you provide us with a rought approximation of the amount of money donated in each of the first 3 years of the site, by year, with an approximation of the average number of members for each year? Then we get get an idea of the $ flow we have now and can get a bette idea how any proposal would impact that flow + or -.

Doug

 

[SteveColes]

So do you want people to pay more than 10 and be a Corporate member or something else ?

I want users to pay nothing for CM. I think it should be based strictly on activity

Steve:

I think how it is received will depend primarily on how it is presented. If you present it like you have laid it out then it may very alienate a lot of members.

However, if it is presented sort of as follows then it might be very well received:

1. NCWW is almost 4 years old;
2. User have received tremendous benefit at no cost to them;
3. Steve and Gail Coles have subsidized the site in large part including the picnic;
4. The cost of running the site is $8000/year;
5. Steps have been taken to create NCWW, Inc., which is a non-profit organization;
6. NCWW.net is a part of NCWW, Inc.;
7. Donations to NCWW, Inc. will be tax deductable when the status requirements are complete;
8. Without the creation of NCWW, Inc. NCWW could disappear if Steve so decides and/or runs out of $;
9. The steps that have been taken will ensure the future of NCWW, Inc. and the site;
10. The annual dues proposed are nominal ($10, $25, etc. /year);
11. Full website functionality will be available to everyone regardless of whether they choose to pay the NCWW, Inc. dues.

If presented properly it will be accepted by the majority of users. I speak from experience here. You can not please everyone, and yes some will not be happy. A thread discussing this topic would receive positive feedback from the majority of major posters which would also go a long way to swayng the rest.

My second 2 cents worth.

First and foremost, dues can not and will not pay for the this site. I mean that in 2 ways. I don't think there is any dues number that could set that would pay for the site and activities. That is my strong opinion and I would not risk the site on any assumption that we could do things that way. Time might prove that it could be done. But I would not want to see it go that way. Also, at our board/staff meeting we decided that dues was not intended to be a major income source. Secondly, to maintain a 501c3 status, at least 33% must come from donations, dues are not donations from the IRS perspective.

Doug, I am honestly not trying to please everyone or even most. I am trying to maintain as much of my original vision of how this website and by extension this new corporation should operate.

Liking it is not required . You asked for feedback. As the only board member, you get to decide what you want to do.


I think it will make a difference. It's like voting. Everyone has an opinion on the economy/ foreign policy/ energy policy/ immigration etc. etc. But, come election day, not everyone votes. Registering beforehand takes commitment, you can't just go vote on a whim.

I ran a photo club on high school. It was free - school provided the space and equipment, you just had to buy the consumables. There were many "members", but only 30-40% were really serious. The rest only showed up once or twice a year, abused the equipment, left a mess etc. It was a royalpain. When I took over, I added a $5 yearly membership fee - but you got $10 in photopaper for it. Membership dropped by 50% overnight. So did the problems.


Hopefully, that can be avoided with lots and lots of communication. But yes, people may confuse "Corporate member" with "Registered user". Not sure if that can ever be avoided.

An entirely different approach: To be a corporate member, only dues are required. Not active web site participation. I seriously doubt anyone who isn't active on the site would even want to become a member. So the actual people wouldn't change. The upside is that without a linkage, there might be fewer misconceptions that the web site is only for those who pay.

A hybrid approach could be to charge dues at a higher level (say $100), which can be waived or reduced if you're an active member, participate in a demonstration at Klingspor, organize a picnic, hold a jig workshop, run a raffle etc. It would give the corporation a way to reward those who do work.

Just some more ideas to further complicate things :gar-La;

Bas, just for the record, I am NOT the only board member. There are seven Board members and it is they that have to approve the By-laws. I am the ONLY member until we approve the new by-laws. I promise you and everyone else that I will abid with the board's wishes in this area. But I will do everything in my power to convince the board that my position is the way to go. Or at least find an acceptable compromise.

What might help here is some historical data. Steve can you provide us with a rought approximation of the amount of money donated in each of the first 3 years of the site, by year, with an approximation of the average number of members for each year? Then we get get an idea of the $ flow we have now and can get a bette idea how any proposal would impact that flow + or -.

Doug

Doug we only have the historical data from July 16 2008. Previous to that Every dime came from my pocket, with one excpetion. So at this point we really don't have any history, except what it costs to run this site in the same manner as I have run it.

Ok, let's take a step backwards, I have hurt my case becuase I jumped into the middle of discussion.

The term Website Active User will be defined by website operations.

A Corporate member is an active Website User who pays dues of $45/year.

Corporate membership does not provide any additional benefits except the right to vote at the annual NC Woodworker, Inc. meeting or other NC Woodworker, Inc. voting matters.

OK, so what I have proposed is basically what has been already decided. I simply provided a 'strawman" Actve User and am attempting to question the amount of the dues.

How we came to that amount of dues is important to remember. We first decided that the dues was not intended as major source of web site income. It's primary purpose was to restrict the number of voting members becuase we thought we would need a quorum of 50% to decide anything. Also $45 seemed to be the number where we could get enough of our active members to join. George(Gator) was our litmus test. :rotflm:

However since that time, some of our assumptions are no longer valid. First, there is no longer a need to restrict the number of members. It turns that we can have a quorum defined at least as low as 10%. So, the more members the better. When people feel they have a say about how things are run, they tend to be more positive about how things are run and tend to contribute more.

The other thing that has changed is the economy. The lower the better. So what I am proposing to board is that the amount of dues not be part of the by-laws. The by-laws will state that board can impose dues at an amount that they see fit. I will recommend highly that the amount be $0 for at least this first year.