Spraying latex with the Earlex 5000

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Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
First of all, I'm no expert on spray finishes. With the exception of the spray can, this is my first time I haven't used a brush, rag or roller. So keep that in mind.

I've been looking at getting a spray gun for a while now. I haven't progressed much beyond BLO and polyurethane, which is nice but something limiting. I'm very much interested in shellacs & lacquers, and I hear it's better to spray those. After seeing the review on the Wood Whisperer, I was sold on the Earlex 5000, since this gun is also supposed to handle latex paint.

I got the Earlex a few weeks ago, and I've used it for a birdcage cabinet. The results so far have been mixed. Spraying latex with an HVLP gun is certainly not trivial. The main problem is that the paint doesn't atomize well, when you spray it it's not a nice fine mist. You know how you sometimes use a spray can and it comes out a little flaky, especially if you didn't shake well or towards the end when the can is getting empty? That's kind of what I got. Second, and DavidF also commented on this in a different thread, you really have to put on a "wet" coat, you can't just spray a thin layer and let it dry. If you do that, the surface gets rough and you're basically sanding everything off. This applies to both paint and clear finishes. Of course, putting on too thick a coat results in runs.

I used Sherwin Williams ProClassic, ultra white. This is 100% acrylic paint, which is supposed to work better for spraying with an HVLP gun. I thinned it pretty aggressively to improve the atomization. I used 10 parts paint, 5 parts Floetrol and 3 parts water. I tried minor variations with more Floetrol and less water, and vice versa, and this seemed optimal. With this much dilution, the coverage ability is greatly reduced, and it won't fill in the tiny dents and imperfections either. A primer is pretty much required on bare wood. I brushed the primer, since I didn't want to dilute the primer too much. I tried both the 1.5mm and 2.0mm needles, and it didn't make much of a difference. Also, with this much Floetrol, it comes out pretty flat. I used high-gloss paint, but it looks like eggshell.

If you lay the paint on thick enough to be "wet", the result is great. It dries very smoothly, certainly better than I could hope to accomplish with a roller, even with an oil-based paint. Fearing runs, I didn't quite get the paint thick enough everywhere, and those areas aren't quite as "glassy". There is also a very slight orange peel effect, but it isn't easy to see unless the light hits it just right (or wrong). The excessive heat probably didn't help either with the finish, cooler weather probably would give the paint more time to even out and settle better.

To get a coat thick enough, the surface has to be level. I made the mistake of trying to spray a vertical surface, I had to do quite a bit of sanding to get the runs off. Having learned my lesson, I just rotated the cabinet to not spray vertically. The paint dries sufficiently within an hour, but it turns what should be a 20 minute job into an all-day affair. And you can't leave the paint in the gun too long either.

I'll be topcoating the project with some polycrylic for extra protection, which will also address any variations in smoothness.

Again, I'm quite happy with the end result. It is very close to that super-smooth "factory-sprayed" feel, but it's certainly not easy. There is definitely technique and experience involved, it's not just pull the trigger and go. Hopefully, spraying a clear finish like polycrylic will be less finicky. I won't be starting the topcoat until the weekend, to give the paint a chance to cure properly. So stay tuned.
 

Travis Porter

New User
Travis
Did you use the stock needle or did you get a bigger one to handle the paint?

I spray the Target USL as DavidF does and it does go on looking like orange peel, but it levels very nicely.

Instead of the Polycrilic, try some Target USL. I have lots of it.:wwink:
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Did you use the stock needle or did you get a bigger one to handle the paint?

I spray the Target USL as DavidF does and it does go on looking like orange peel, but it levels very nicely.

Instead of the Polycrilic, try some Target USL. I have lots of it.:wwink:
I used the stock 2.0mm needle. There is a 2.5mm needle available, but nobody's reported great results with it. Not sure I want to shell out another $45 for the off chance it improves things.

How does the Target USL go on to a vertical surface? Any runs? I might come borrow a cup if the polycrylic doesn't work out (I have a full gallon can of the polycrylic.....should have bought a quart instead, but I had a $10 off $25 coupon.....:rolf:)
 

Travis Porter

New User
Travis
As for the needles, I bet it would have kept you from having to thin as much and would reduce the number of coats you have to put on. I bought all the needles with my Fuji, but have yet to use any but the stock needle as I haven't sprayed anything but shellac, wb shellac, and wb lacquer.

The USL is excellent horizontal and vertical. Overall, I get zero runs. The key to it is to do light but wet coats like DavidF suggests. I have used polycrilic, but I have only brushed it not sprayed. It too is a waterbased lacquer like the Target and for all I know could be made exactly the same way. DavidF's comment about if it looks white you are getting it too heavy makes sense (for polycrilic as well). I hadn't thought about it until he mentioned it, but he is right on with the comment.

How are you doing with your spray techniques making sure to get even coats? Are you timing yourself to make sure you aren't rushing through your passes? I have heard tell of some professional sprayers that sing while they spray to keep their timing and help keep their coats even. Not something I will be trying. ;-)
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
As for the needles, I bet it would have kept you from having to thin as much and would reduce the number of coats you have to put on.
It's very possible. I used the viscosity cup that came with the Earlex as a guide to thinning. The manual states you want the cup to empty in 25-60 seconds. With the formula I described, I got it to about 55 seconds, still on the high side. But, that doesn't take into account the needle size, which I think should be a factor (?).

The USL is excellent horizontal and vertical. Overall, I get zero runs. The key to it is to do light but wet coats like DavidF suggests. I have used polycrilic, but I have only brushed it not sprayed.
That's encouraging! So much to learn, so many things to try...


How are you doing with your spray techniques making sure to get even coats? Are you timing yourself to make sure you aren't rushing through your passes?
I know I could use some improvement in this area. I try to hold my wrist rigid and move along a plane, as opposed to making an arc. I also spray something like the doors from all four sides, to get even coverage. But, it's not perfect yet. I do the "start spraying before and continue spraying past the piece" thing, but I noticed a couple of edges didn't quite get enough paint. I find I do better at the start, when my hand and arm aren't tired yet. Practice practice practice....

I have heard tell of some professional sprayers that sing while they spray to keep their timing and help keep their coats even. Not something I will be trying. ;-)
Ha. Double ha. Triple ha. I've been banned from singing in 8 different states. Some suspect it was my singing that forced me to leave Holland. But all things aside, singing while wearing a respirator? You know what that sounds like?
 

JimD

Jim
Senior User
I have sprayed polycrylic with my Wagner conversion gun. You cannot thin water based clear finishes much so I did not and it was a bit thick. I could have used a larger needle set but did not want to spend the money. I could spray vertical and horizontal surfaces and get a pretty smooth finish but I had to get the air and finish adjustment just right.

Resisthane, my favorite, is thinner and much easier to spray. It also dries a lot faster so you can get on more coats in less time. You can recoat Polycrylic in a few hours but it takes a long time to reach full hardness (maybe as much as a month). Final results with Polycrylic were fine.

I would try it and see if you like it. My guess is you will want to try something else next gallon but since you have it, why not.

A way to test your gun adjustment is to spray a bit of water first. If my gun adjustments are off, sometimes water does not even spray well - or if I didn't get the gun completely cleaned out. It's a lot easier and cheaper to find this out with water. A tiny bit of residual water in the gun doesn't seem to hurt much. If the water sprays well, then you should be close with the real finish.

Jim
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Thanks for the advice Jim. The Earlex doesn't have much in the way of adjustment, only the flow of liquid. Air pressure is constant. Less to screw up I suppose, but also less to improve things.

I will definitely check out Resisthane as soon as I finish this can....I've broken free of the Borg in the areas of lumber, sandpaper and screws, now it's time for better finishes!
 

Travis Porter

New User
Travis
Thanks for the advice Jim. The Earlex doesn't have much in the way of adjustment, only the flow of liquid. Air pressure is constant. Less to screw up I suppose, but also less to improve things.

I will definitely check out Resisthane as soon as I finish this can....I've broken free of the Borg in the areas of lumber, sandpaper and screws, now it's time for better finishes!

Ahh, but you can control air flow. Go to the Borg and buy you an inline on/off valve for a garden hose. My Fuji came with a plastic one that broke so I got a brass one at the BORG.
 

DavidF

New User
David
I have spare Target Shellac and USL laquer if you want to try some, I am finished with for a while and somebody may as well have it before it goes off.
 
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