Raised panels- new Woodsmith

[Keye]

Just finished a quick scan of the raised panel bits article in the new WS mag. It brought to mind something I have struggled with in the past when making raised panels. This struggle is one of the reasons I have not made many raised panels. I have always made the panels stand proud of the rails and stiles because if I don't the profile is so thin I might as well make flat panels.

Let me say I am not picking on Woodsmith. I find the same frustration in all the mags.

In the article they talk about how thick the panel needs to be with different bits. They almost make me think every bit needs a different thickness panel. For one bit they say the panel needs to be over 3/4 inch thick. How much over 3/4 inch @##$%^%. I understand this is an article on bits and not how to make a particular project but they do the same thing, or even less info, for project specific articles. I understand, as they also say in the article, the panel can be below, level or proud of the stiles and rails.

Start with 3/4 inch rails and stiles and a 1/4 inch groove in the center of the rails and stiles. Using a 3/4 inch panel, I end up with a 1/4 inch rabbit on the back, a 1/4 inch tongue(?) and this leaves 1/4 inch for the raised part of the panel. The profile ends up being so shallow if is almost not visable.

I think all I have done is show how ignorant I am when it comes to raised panels. Help!!

 

[Badabing]

Hi Keye,

I'm with ya on that! It is very frustrating when you don't get all the info you need from one of those articles. Not having much experience myself but having two sets of raised panel door bits (rail and stile bits included), I've attempted to make them too.

My question to you is why do you need a rabbet on the back side of the panel? Maybe if you eliminate that you won't have a shallow door? I've sesen Norm put a rabbit on the back of his panels too, but I think he does that because his panel stock is thicker than his rail and stile stock :eusa_thin Or maybe because he wants the panel recessed and not flush with the rails and stiles?

I may be missing something but I'd say to try it without the rabbet and see what you get :-D

 

[Travis Porter]

I find at times Woodsmith has a tendency to leave out key information. I have emailed them in the past to get specifics on projects where they have left out measurements.

To your comments on raised panels, IMO, it depends. I have made the panels 5/8" thick, 3/4" thick, 3/4" thick with a back rabbet, and on and on. If you want the panel to be flush with the rails and stiles then 5/8" thick panels has worked best for me to get an edge that isn't miniscule. Still, your mileage will vary depending on your panel raising bit. I personally do not see why the panel needs to be flush to the rails if you are not drum or wide belt sanding the door as a whole.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

The other thing you can do is set up your cope/stick bits so the panel groove is not in the center of your rails and stiles. In my kitchen the groove is closer to the back of the rails and stiles so that there is only about a 1/8 of rails/stile stock behind the panel. A friend in the cabinet business uses 5/8" stock (MDF for paint grade cabinets) for the panels and this method. He mills his rail/stile stock to 13/16 so the panel starts out recessed slightly below the surface of the rails/stiles. Then he runs the entire door through his wide belt or drum sander to sand the rails/stiles and joints, until he just grazes the panel and ends up with a 3/4" thick door.

 

[Charles M]

keye,

We offer three basic types of raised panel bits:

5/8" stock panel raisers - When used in 5/8" stock they make the panel flush with the frame in front and recessed in back. Can also be used in 3/4" stock with a separate back cut to make the panel flush in front and back.

3/4" stock panel raisers - used in 3/4" stock to make panels that are proud of the frame in front and recessed in back.

3/4" stock panel raisers with back cutters - These are the same profiles as the 5/8" bits but have the back cutter integrated so they make panels in 3/4" stock that are flush in front and back.

If you try to use a 3/4" stock panel raiser in 5/8" stock you will lose part of the reveal and the profile may not look as desired.

 

[Travis Porter]

keye,

We offer three basic types of raised panel bits:

5/8" stock panel raisers - When used in 5/8" stock they make the panel flush with the frame in front and recessed in back. Can also be used in 3/4" stock with a separate back cut to make the panel flush in front and back.

3/4" stock panel raisers - used in 3/4" stock to make panels that are proud of the frame in front and recessed in back.

3/4" stock panel raisers with back cutters - These are the same profiles as the 5/8" bits but have the back cutter integrated so they make panels in 3/4" stock that are flush in front and back.

If you try to use a 3/4" stock panel raiser in 5/8" stock you will lose part of the reveal and the profile may not look as desired.

Charles, how do you know which one you have? Does the same apply to shaper cutters?

 

[Charles M]

Charles, how do you know which one you have?

Measuring the carbide height is the best way. Freud 3/4" stock panel raisers have carbide that is 5/8" tall and ones for 5/8" stock are 1/2" tall.

Does the same apply to shaper cutters?

Yes. 5/8" stock:
http://www.freudtools.com/p-395-22-raised-panel-cutters-for-58-stock.aspx

3/4" stock:
http://www.freudtools.com/p-397-22-raised-panel-cutters-for-34-stock.aspx

 

[Travis Porter]

Measuring the carbide height is the best way. Freud 5/8" stock panel raisers have carbide that is 5/8" tall and ones for 5/8" stock are 1/2" tall.

stock.aspx[/URL]

Huh? I think there is a typo.

 

[Charles M]

Huh? I think there is a typo.

Doh! It's fixt now.

 

[Keye]

To be honest I am stunned.

I have been trying to be a woodworker for about 12 years now. I have read article after article, book after book, forum post after forum post and this is the first time I have ever heard anything about different raised panel bits for different thickness panels. I admit to sometimes missing the fine print but this is, heck I don't know what it is.

Charles not sure what you corrected. I think you posted and corrected before I saw your first post.

Based on at least one other post I don't feel like the complete lone ranger.

 

[Charles M]

Not all manufacturers offer these options. Some just offer the flatter 5/8" profile and show it's use in 3/4" stock (and actually our 5/8" stock panel raisers could do this as well) but the resulting step from the face of the panel is too tall in my opinion.

 

[Travis Porter]

To be honest I am stunned.

I have been trying to be a woodworker for about 12 years now. I have read article after article, book after book, forum post after forum post and this is the first time I have ever heard anything about different raised panel bits for different thickness panels. I admit to sometimes missing the fine print but this is, heck I don't know what it is.

Charles not sure what you corrected. I think you posted and corrected before I saw your first post.

Based on at least one other post I don't feel like the complete lone ranger.

Charles corrected measurements on the first post, but I as well am stunned. I never new their were different sizes. I primarily have Freud cutters for panel raising, but I have had the issue with the reveal not being large enough myself. I can say definitively say this has been an enlightening thread.