Pleasure to Profit...

[moodyfloyd]

I am curious to hear from anyone as to if and how they turned the hobby of woodworking/carpentry into a profitable side business or new career. What methods did you use to accomplish this as far as networking, advertising, and costs involved. How hard is it to maintain a steady workflow, and to survive in an economical state that we will probably be experiencing for some time...

Just feel like picking at your brains.

Thanks in advance,

Shawn

 

[MrAudio815]

I tried to get a job before the end of my spring semester and it didn't happen.

So I decided to give the local Farmers Market a try here in Logan, Utah. They also sell hand made crafts. So I decided to sell my Segmented bowls and bracelets. I thought for sure my bracelets would sell like mad. Welp I have sold 4 bracelets in the 6 times I have been there, 2 to other vendors and no solid bowls or segmented.

I then made some Chopsticks and sold two pair so far. Then I started making earrings for cheap...made 15 pair and sold 16. Didn't make a lot of money, but it was nice to come home with more that $30 or $20 profit as the Farmers Market cost $10 each Sat from 9am to 1pm.

So all in all I am sure I will be getting a JOB next year for sure. Not enough to support me, let alone my family. I am sure there are others that have done much better than I have......I even have a business card and have had no success from that.

Have a good one,

Matthew

 

[cskipper]

I don't think you will find many who have made their hobby into their income. I am looking for outlets for my work, but nothing really promising so far. Several years ago I had a large (for me) order for snowflakes/trivets. I hated every one I cut - the time frame took all the fun out of it.

 

[ScottM]

There are so many variables that come into play but generally speaking only a couple percent of those who try and make a living at this. Sure you can sell some of your work but for most of us factoring in material, misc supplies, space, utilities, equipment cost, etc you are only making a few dollars.

 

[stave]

I think the transition from hobby to business gets harder as you get older. When you are young there are fewer bills, less responsibilities and less fear.

Even in the best of times the transition would be difficult. Finding outlets now is next to impossible. My clients tell me there are lines of people trying to sign up for any sales opportunities.
Unless you have a cash reserve and have time to actually build a business then it will be next to impossible in these times. If you are fearless and can continually take rejection after rejection for that one opportunity then you stand a slim chance.

Not a very optimistic picture I have painted....and I am an optimist painting an optimistic picture!

Stave

 

[Ken Massingale]

99.9% of potential customers can't comprehend why we can't build them quality products for the $$$ they can get crap at Walmart, Pottery Barn, Ikea, etc for.
And the .1% that do understand don't have any money!

 

[Makinsawdust]

Shawn,

For the most part doing ww'ing is fun but it is extremely difficult to make much money doing it. It is a good side job for tool money. I've been doing it part-time, and then full-time when I lost my job in late 2004. I'm fortunate that my wife has a good job. I'd be on the street otherwise.

Promotion and product selection are the keys to success. Matthew's experience is exactly what I would expect. Some products sell better than others and some people sell their product better than others. Just because it's beautiful don't mean you can sell it for enough to pay yourself. My philosophy is; "not everything that I can/could make is something that I should make." There's a steep learning curve. You must be willing to make what customers want and will pay for, not what you necessarily want to make. Notice I said "and willing pay for." Some of the things I get ask about are not worth my time. What Ken said comes into play here. If they ask for a "cheap' book case out of pine it is better for me to send them off to one of the chain craft stores. It takes me just as long to make "cheap" as it does a fine hardwood bookcase.

Furniture is great if you can get enough commissions and charge enough for them. I wanted to do more of this but have spent most of my time manufacturing craft stuff to pay the shop bills. A lot of furniture makers teach and write articles and books to fill in the income gap. Not every woodworker is a good teacher and/or writer. Of course this takes away time from building furniture and requires even more promotion.


Farmers Markets and gallery/stores eat up a lot of hours for the return. "Good" art and craft shows are where the money's at. The down side is you must travel far and wide to get to shows that are worth your time. There are way too many poor to mediocre shows. Good shows can be hard to jury into as well. Then there is the weather to contend with at outdoor shows and the extra work and expense of indoor shows. Doing shows requires long hours. Take the Lazy Daze show in your town, Shawn. I drive up mid-day Friday, set up canopy and display sometime between 6-8pm. Arrive back at the booth between 4:30-5am to unload and set up product. I have to be there this early to get parked and to beat the rush. Things can get interesting if 400 venders try to enter the show at the same time. 8am-5pm sell. At 5pm load it back up and drive to Charlotte. Then process credit cards however long that takes. My total expense for this show will be $300-350. Shawn if you would like to see how a show works your welcome to come by my booth A060 near Chatham and Walker St. Aug. 27th.

Being a one man business means you get to do everything. There are way too many bases to cover so therefore the hours are long. I'd make a list of the things not directly related to woodworking, but I'd be up all night. Some of the work is also physically taxing. I spend a lot of time loading and unloading product and lumber. Exotic woods are heavy!

Well I've said way too much and it's 1 am. I'm going to bed. I don't get by here as much as I use to. If anyone wants to chat, tell me I'm stupid or crazy, PM me.

 

[DWSmith]

First - You need a real plan. One that you have put some real thought and research into.

The product you make has to have some sort of a demand. Or you can do the shotgun approach and make dozens of items and hope something sells. The items that don't sell will tie up money and time, neither of which you can afford. Go to shows and stores to see what sells then find a way to make it yourself and still maintain a profit margin. I've tried the shotgun approach and it is a waste of time. And fancy doesn't help much either. Just because something looks fancy and complicated doesn't mean it will sell. The KISS rule does apply here.

Find a good supplier for your raw materials. Buying wood at full retail is foolish and expensive and will kill whatever profit you can make. Find the supplier, create a good relationship with them and be loyal.

Find a source for promoting your items. Sites like eBay and Etsy are for the most part a total waste of time. To many people who are willing to sell junk at a cheap price are on those sites. Most of the sellers are using scraps for materials and will sell it at scrap prices promising extraordinary results. The best way is to get your own web site, shopping cart and merchant account.

Look for venues to sell your work. The vast majority of craft shows only make money for the organizers. SOme of the shows have regulars who come time after time and are protected, the organizers will not allow any competitors to be entered. I have been trying to enter a show here in NC for several years now and my only success is paying the organizers the application fee. The best way to find a good show is to attend to see what the traffic is, who is selling and what is selling.

Know your product. Be the best that you can be making yout item as efficiently as you can with your eye on profit and quality. There will be many out there who will spend $100 for raw materials and make a $10 item.

Know you competition. You will find, and I see it and hear it at each and every show I attend, there will always be someone who has watched a TV woodworking show and knows far more than you do and can make your item far cheaper. At least that is what he tells his wife.

Protect yourself. Merchant accounts to take credit cards at a show with a wireless terminal, web sites, shopping carts, business licenses, insurance, name registration and the like will go a long way to make you stand out among the rest of the crowd. Look for those who are successful and ask questions. Some will answer some won't. But some will be a wealth of information you can rely on. (When you hear about a success someone had, take it with a grain of salt. Puffery is rampant at shows.) The wireless terminal is a wonderful option. There are a lot of hot cards out there and a wireless terminal allows you to get an immediate approval, or denial, on the spot and not be stuck with a phony card imprinted on a knuckle buster.

TIME! Be willing to invest time before you start and be ready to spend time after you begin.

 

[walnutjerry]

Shawn----------I made that transition at age 51, hung with it for 15 years before retiring. Made profit from day 1-------but there is a huge difference between making a profit and making a living.

You got some very truthful replies from Makingsawdust and Boardsmith. I could go on and on but they covered it pretty good.

Although I made the least money per year those years, they were the most content years of my life. It boils down to what do you want and can you survive with your situation.

Good luck----------Jerry

 

[MrAudio815]

Walnut Jerry & boardSmith nailed it.

One thing to add about the art shows here in Utah is you have to have insurance in case a customer falls in your tent and hurts them self or a flying piece of plastic slicing a women's arm as a huge gust of wind blew out the plastic from a frame. Happened at one of my uncles shows. The insurance required in SLC, UT and other city's in Utah is 1 million...& 3 million. Not sure what each cover but that is what it is. My uncles tell me it is around $260-$300 a year for the insurance.

Another thing, is I am sure not loving the time frame to produce things even when I set the time frame. I seem to get distracted doing things I think are more important each day, then it's Friday and I have to get that commission completed before Saturday's show. Arrgh.

I have made a profit as well even when I made $30 for that Saturday, but it was $20 profit. $10 for the booth spot. Other shows here in Utah are from $250 to $500+....There is no way I would make a profit there the way I am going. Now if you count all the time I put into what I do to make $20, I am making nothing for my time, and my Wife sure lets me know it.....GET A JOB~! I hear it all the time....And I am searching for a job, there hard to come by too.


Welp again good luck, Or Hope you have a product everyone wants/needs/can't live without~!

 

[drw]

My involvement is strictly as a hobbyist. While I have made several large projects that I have received lots of very positive feedback. Nonetheless, I generally have more money in these projects in the cost of the wood than most people would be willing to pay. Since I have many, many hours of my time in these efforts, if I was trying to make a profit I couldn't afford to buy my own work! :confused_

Donn

 

[dave "dhi"]

Wood working has become a full time job since 2002 and still going during these hard times say's something! Proud of what i have accomplished starting in not so great of times! My success has mainly been due to me performing majority of work and when i don't, I'm right there watching. Homeowner love a contractor who just doesn't make an appearance when the bill is due!ccasion1 www.daveshomeimprove.com

 

[zapdafish]

I think getting yourself on Angies List and getting favorable reviews there is very helpful.

 

[DWSmith]

***Public Apology***

Someone got their nose out of joint from the reply I posted earlier today. I'm sorry you took my statements personal and I'm sorry you misunderstood. I'll refrain from any other replys in the future.

 

[BWSmith]

May be out of place here(bein new)but,I thought you had many valid points there BoardSMITH.Might be the weather,britches riding up and all?BW

 

[Bigdog72]

Don't worry Boardsmith. For some, the nose is always out of joint!!!:banana: :banana: :banana:

 

[ehpoole]

Boardsmith,

Please don't let the occassional complaint dissaude you from future replies, you have done no wrong today. I've stepped on toes occassionally as well, that comes with the territory when discussing a topic you hold dear and are passionate about. If you wish to be diplomatic, simply apologize for the misunderstanding to the individual, and if you don't just let it be. We all have sour days and the individual who was upset with this post may well be thanking you in your very next thread.

Having engaged in public forums since the Usenet days and the myriad of flame wars and mailbox bombing it occassionally engendered when the internet was opened to the masses, sometimes it pays to have a short memory. (..and sometimes, admittedly, it pays to shut up, but please don't let this be one of those times! I have greatly enjoyed your contributions.)

Carry on!

 

[JackLeg]

Boardsmith,

Please don't let the occassional complaint dissaude you from future replies, you have done no wrong today. I've stepped on toes occassionally as well, that comes with the territory when discussing a topic you hold dear and are passionate about. If you wish to be diplomatic, simply apologize for the misunderstanding to the individual, and if you don't just let it be. We all have sour days and the individual who was upset with this post may well be thanking you in your very next thread.

Having engaged in public forums since the Usenet days and the myriad of flame wars and mailbox bombing it occassionally engendered when the internet was opened to the masses, sometimes it pays to have a short memory. (..and sometimes, admittedly, it pays to shut up, but please don't let this be one of those times! I have greatly enjoyed your contributions.)

Carry on!

Amen! Continue to march! :wsmile:

 

[golfdad]

Dave...I started a business a few yrs back....think you said eveything that needed saying and I agree.......

 

[richlife]

BoardSmith, I have no idea why anyone would complain about your post (and I noticed none of those complaints here). What you said can be found in any good book or article about establishing your craft business.

My personal experience has been along the lines of what others said here -- making a living with wood is a difficult proposition. I finally closed my "business" after 5 years. As long as I was selling my work for fifty cents to a dollar an hours labor, it sold well. When I increased prices to something justifiable (literally $2 - $5 an hour labor), sales just stopped. (That was also coincident with the economic downturn.) My material costs were trivial adding at most only a few bucks to any one piece. My tool costs were NOT trivial and I never could make a profit counting tooling.

My experience with galleries was not good. "You do great work -- love it! But if you would just make gnomes, I can sell everything you make." But I don't want to make gnomes. After spending lots of hours on shows, it seemed like most "craft" objects I made initially sold well -- but then never again. So I have lots of "leftovers". My woodcarvings have gotten tremendous reviews at all the shows -- but almost zero sales.

Despite my "negative" experience, over the years I got two pieces of advice that I felt are worthwhile and that I think anyone thinking of establishing a business (especially with woodworking) should consider.

1 - Years ago I talked with the owner of a backpacking shop (during the heyday of backpacking). He said, "Never make your hobby your business. You will lose your favorite activity."

2 - More recently while on a vacation in Canada, the head of marketing for Alberta (think Banff National Park) told me that my approach on pricing was wrong. Don't think in terms or recouping expense or labor. Instead, determine how many units per year (or month) you can produce. Then decide how much profit you must have to make the business worth your while -- that could be $5000 or $50000 a year, for example. Add your costs to your profit, divide by the output and establish your prices.

On the latter, I wanted to pay for tooling plus a little, so I decided on $5000 a year profit. With my hand work only process (perversely not using motor driven tools), I can only produce 12 - 13 carvings a year even going all out. So if I assume $6000 income, that left me with around $500 average per carving -- a level that produced no sales. And since some carving take MUCH more time, I set $500 as a minimum.

Keep in mind that maybe people just really don't like my work despite their reviews. :gar-Bi

Rich