New table saw advice
- Thread starter Jay A
- Start date
Jay, if you would consider a used saw i have an older Delta 10" that i am giving away. Has good blade and fence but no blade guard. Pop pop on the forum has a blade guard he will donate to go with it. Saw runs fine but i bought a new one and need to make room for it.
I am in Hampstead which is a bit of a drive but for the price you would only have the cost of gas invested. I have also purchased a bandsaw from a guy in East Bend and need to get it down here. I have a 10" Craftsman bandsaw that needs someone to figure out blade tension on and I have offered to give it to someone who would transport the one here for me.
If this interests you let me know
I am in Hampstead which is a bit of a drive but for the price you would only have the cost of gas invested. I have also purchased a bandsaw from a guy in East Bend and need to get it down here. I have a 10" Craftsman bandsaw that needs someone to figure out blade tension on and I have offered to give it to someone who would transport the one here for me.
If this interests you let me know
if you are careful, you can keep your money in your pocket and keep your fingers.
Woodworking is a journey, we all start at different places - but we all start somewhere. I started with a Bosch, similar to the one in Raymond's post. It was all I had for a couple of years, but is does have its limitations...so, when I had the opportunity I bought a really nice saw. I am not advocating for any particular brand, my point is to start somewhere and enjoy the journey.
Three yrs later, I’m facing a similar question, only now delta or whoever owns the brand now has a T2 version of the contractors saw, although not sure what’s changed, while it looks the same as the Rigid R4560. Wondering what you ended up buying? Thoughts on it?
You need someone to pick up the bandsaw in East Bend?
Kind of an old thread now but it popped up in a search for reviews on the R4560. Saw it was the ncww site so hoped to read some helpful info about the r4560 which I’m currently considering and is probably same saw mechanically as the newer delta 36-725-T2. Kind of disappointed how little info. Lots of opinions on various other saws, but maybe no members have used these saws. For some of us budget and need are priorities. I no longer need a cabinet grade saw. im never going to sell anything and my personal projects if the house can be done on my Bosch if I had to. But I’d prefer a more robust version and these contractor saw will service my needs - just be nice to read actual users opinions not just reviews on retail sites from 1 week owners.
An old thread but given the current interest, I can weigh in on the older 36-725 version of the Delta saw. What I like about it is it has all the features of larger, more expensive saws (other than Sawstops' brake) though at a hobbyist, not professional level. A few comments you may find useful;
- Unlike some contractor saws this one can be used with dados, though you do need to buy a dado insert. Though easily found on the web, it was difficult to locate a source that has them in stock
- Some have mentioned power as an issue but I've ripped 8/4 hardwood with it (ash/hickory) using a standard width blade (.126 kerf Freud LU84R011). Just had to feed it reasonably slow (8' in about 1:30).
- Though it's advertised as a 120V saw the motor is switchable to 220V and it's fairly easy to convert it. It runs better on 220V power but works OK on 120 too.
- Some recommend using thin kerf blades to "help" the motor with thick stock but I've found with thin kerf blades the riving knife won't clear the kerf. The only "solution" is to remove it - not a good idea IMO.
- I've been using mine for 7 years with only one, minor breakdown about 6 years in. The motor isn't totally enclosed and because I wasn't using dust collection, enough sawdust accumulated on the starter contacts to keep the motor from starting. Removing the motor housing and blowing it out solved the problem.
Bottom line - this is a great saw for the price if it fits your needs.
- Unlike some contractor saws this one can be used with dados, though you do need to buy a dado insert. Though easily found on the web, it was difficult to locate a source that has them in stock
- Some have mentioned power as an issue but I've ripped 8/4 hardwood with it (ash/hickory) using a standard width blade (.126 kerf Freud LU84R011). Just had to feed it reasonably slow (8' in about 1:30).
- Though it's advertised as a 120V saw the motor is switchable to 220V and it's fairly easy to convert it. It runs better on 220V power but works OK on 120 too.
- Some recommend using thin kerf blades to "help" the motor with thick stock but I've found with thin kerf blades the riving knife won't clear the kerf. The only "solution" is to remove it - not a good idea IMO.
- I've been using mine for 7 years with only one, minor breakdown about 6 years in. The motor isn't totally enclosed and because I wasn't using dust collection, enough sawdust accumulated on the starter contacts to keep the motor from starting. Removing the motor housing and blowing it out solved the problem.
Bottom line - this is a great saw for the price if it fits your needs.
My thoughts:
- find an older cabinet saw (Jet, Delta, General, etc) via Facebook Marketplace
- or, consider an ever so slight bump in your budget: Like this Grizzly hybrid saw
- the table saw is the heart of most shops
- I have a Saw Stop contractor saw with all of the bells and whistles
- I don't aggree with people who say that the build quality is tops
- the riving knife (which all table saws have now) is the best safety feature
- follow your heart/wallet
- I also have a harbor freight job site saw with a crappy fence that does everything I ask it to....so get what isn't financially painful
Thank you for sharing. I’m feeling confident the delta/rigid - latest is listed at 15a vs orig at 13 - is enough for my needs - 8/4 is about as much as I handle. Most of my need is 4/4 other than maybe a desktop or table legs. I don’t use dados, use my router. I make my own zero clearance inserts so that’s not an issue. I never had a riving knife or saw guard until I got the Bosch and found them a hassle so took them off - felt less safe to me actually. The thin kerf blade from Bosch is ok for rough work. I have a slightly thin kerf Forrest hi atb for laminates. My other Forrest, Freud, and Lietz blades work fine on the Bosch - slow ripping but gets job done. Mostly looking for a more stable saw and a tad extra power won’t hurt. The better fence is a bonus.
I’ll probably opt for new since most I’ve seen used are potentially those with start capacitor/motor issues from delta or older rigid that seem to have trunion or aluminum fence rail problems. Plus I don’t have access to a truck or robust helpers, so with bad back trying to wrangle a 200lb saw in/out of my hatchback, even in sections isn’t worth the risk.
I’ll probably opt for new since most I’ve seen used are potentially those with start capacitor/motor issues from delta or older rigid that seem to have trunion or aluminum fence rail problems. Plus I don’t have access to a truck or robust helpers, so with bad back trying to wrangle a 200lb saw in/out of my hatchback, even in sections isn’t worth the risk.
I have a Powermatic 72 that I picked up for $200. I rebuilt the arbor with new bearings, asked Bob to turn the arbor flange true, bought a replacement cursor for the fence and rebuilt the motor with new bearings. I don't know if I would actually recommend a 12" tablesaw as the 1" arbor and size has pros and cons but I always recommend buying old quality machines and replacing bearings to get an amazing machine that you couldn't afford otherwise.
Thanks for your input - last point is most appreciated. I really don’t need the extra size since mobility to the other garage is via 36” doorway and the contractor mobile bases look a lot easier to manage. Most of the cabinet saws I’ve seen have old type fences or lack a mobile base or are 230v (I guess most can rewire for 120) or if newer are beyond my budget. Plus I’m not able to go get a used saw from a seller for lack of vehicle and lack of manpower. I’ve made quality furniture with lesser saws. At this point in retirement I won’t be looking to build anything for income or to impress anyone beyond me and my wife.
Appreciate the thoughts but doesn’t make sense for me.
I started out with a Ridgid TS2424, and it was a pretty nice saw. Decent fence and accurate, and the instruction manual and packaging were good. Adequate power if you used a sensible feed rate and good blade, and the dust collection deal worked pretty good.
On the other hand, 3X3 Custom on Youtube speaks at length about a saw comparable to the one you're looking at, I think, and makes some valid points. Skip the HD ad in the middle. Seems to have space benefits if that's an issue.
Right now I'm using an older Grizzly cabinet saw my father-in-law gave me when he downsized, and it's a good saw, too. The feature I wish it had (and I may opt for an aftermarket "install it yourself" version) is a splitter. I don't use my TS extensively, but I've used Sawstop machines a lot over the past couple of years, and I may upgrade for the overall quality and safety. If I were starting out again, I'd not get the Sawstop until I knew I was going to spend a lot of time woodworking.
Good luck with the hunt!
On the other hand, 3X3 Custom on Youtube speaks at length about a saw comparable to the one you're looking at, I think, and makes some valid points. Skip the HD ad in the middle. Seems to have space benefits if that's an issue.
Right now I'm using an older Grizzly cabinet saw my father-in-law gave me when he downsized, and it's a good saw, too. The feature I wish it had (and I may opt for an aftermarket "install it yourself" version) is a splitter. I don't use my TS extensively, but I've used Sawstop machines a lot over the past couple of years, and I may upgrade for the overall quality and safety. If I were starting out again, I'd not get the Sawstop until I knew I was going to spend a lot of time woodworking.
Good luck with the hunt!
Thx. I’ve only used old delta contractor and unisaws in my past. Got accustomed to no splitter and rarely have a pinching issue. I keep some small wood wedges nearby that I can push into the kerf slot if necessary. Biggest pain was the unisaw fence, the round bar was terrible so I eventually made a t-square fence with the help of a machinist friend back in the day. That saw was tough to part with when I had to relo to So FL. Tiny garages meant selling the saw since I needed folding and portable. I got the Bosch 4100 jobsite model and it’s been sufficient, but I didn’t do much woodworking due to renting for half our time there and generally too hot for 3/4 of the year. Hard to sand or finish wood when sweat is pouring off your head. Now with new house, I can see where going back to a contractor type will be easier to handle the projects I have in mind. Plus I don’t have high enough needs to justify a higher budget. Doesn’t make sense. I’m not planning to do woodworking for hire or sale and my personal projects aren’t that demanding.
This discussion keeps coming up. And I think for a good reasons.
TS are what a lot of our work in the shop is done with. Also, accuracy on the TS drives the fit and finish of what we make usually. Especially for us weekend warriors who don't own a rack of hand planes
Get the best fence and miter you can is more important than the saw brand. Rigid used to be pretty dang good on their mid range saws for the fence. The miter, not so much. Looks like Delta and Rigid are the same now so I would make sure you can at least check out the fence on a saw at the store to make sure you are comfortable with how accurate it may be. Toss Bosch in the mix too. The miter? Well, get the best one with the saw you can, but you will end up buying an after market one anyhow (unless you go really high end). And you will also find that making sleds will make your miter cuts be more accurate.
The riving knife discussion is almost endless. Yes it is safer. Of course it is. Until it makes a cut stop becaues the board pinches too much before the rive. It's happened to all of us. Not common, but it's there. Becomes scary sometimes. Personally I use the rive sometimes (usually on small kerf blades) but for the most part it is not on the saw. Don't get me wrong. YOU WILL experience kick backs without a riving knife. It's almost inevitable. And yes, your fingers will be in danger if you aren't using proper push blocks when doing so. And sometimes even using them.
Long story short. Get the best powered and most accurate TS you can afford in your current budget. Be very mindfull of safety, not just in the saw usage but also in the saw purchase (used or new). And always, always, pay attention to yourself and how you are doing the cut. What you are cutting, how you are making that cut and where your fingers, hands, other body parts, are in relation to the item you are cutting and the tool you are doing it with.
TS are what a lot of our work in the shop is done with. Also, accuracy on the TS drives the fit and finish of what we make usually. Especially for us weekend warriors who don't own a rack of hand planes
Get the best fence and miter you can is more important than the saw brand. Rigid used to be pretty dang good on their mid range saws for the fence. The miter, not so much. Looks like Delta and Rigid are the same now so I would make sure you can at least check out the fence on a saw at the store to make sure you are comfortable with how accurate it may be. Toss Bosch in the mix too. The miter? Well, get the best one with the saw you can, but you will end up buying an after market one anyhow (unless you go really high end). And you will also find that making sleds will make your miter cuts be more accurate.
The riving knife discussion is almost endless. Yes it is safer. Of course it is. Until it makes a cut stop becaues the board pinches too much before the rive. It's happened to all of us. Not common, but it's there. Becomes scary sometimes. Personally I use the rive sometimes (usually on small kerf blades) but for the most part it is not on the saw. Don't get me wrong. YOU WILL experience kick backs without a riving knife. It's almost inevitable. And yes, your fingers will be in danger if you aren't using proper push blocks when doing so. And sometimes even using them.
Long story short. Get the best powered and most accurate TS you can afford in your current budget. Be very mindfull of safety, not just in the saw usage but also in the saw purchase (used or new). And always, always, pay attention to yourself and how you are doing the cut. What you are cutting, how you are making that cut and where your fingers, hands, other body parts, are in relation to the item you are cutting and the tool you are doing it with.
All good points, more so for newbies, but always good to hear others thoughts at any experience level. Been around for a while so I got quite a few “add-ons”. Bought a basic incra miter gauge I’ll keep using as my primary, so not concerned with what comes with the saw. I screw on aux fences as needed. A old oak one I made decades ago with stop block is handy for repetitive cuts. I typically use a shorter one and cut it off after attaching so right end aligns with edge of the cut. Fence is important, but I’ve never completely relied on the scale or pointer, I measure to blade tooth edge front and back. Switching from thin kerf to standard blade changes zero for fence position so I got accustomed to just measuring. I’ll omit the thin kerf and sell it with my old saw, so an accurate fence would be a new and appreciated feature. I have several steel for the miter slots that I use for sleds and jigs, they are drilled and tapped so easy to use for new slides or jigs. I have a handful of jigs and make them as needed, table leg tapering, raised panels, tenons, etc - same for push blocks and hold downs. I’m not new at this. Being mindful of safety has not been abandoned simply due to retiring from engineering.This discussion keeps coming up. And I think for a good reasons.
TS are what a lot of our work in the shop is done with. Also, accuracy on the TS drives the fit and finish of what we make usually. Especially for us weekend warriors who don't own a rack of hand planes
Get the best fence and miter you can is more important than the saw brand. Rigid used to be pretty dang good on their mid range saws for the fence. The miter, not so much. Looks like Delta and Rigid are the same now so I would make sure you can at least check out the fence on a saw at the store to make sure you are comfortable with how accurate it may be. Toss Bosch in the mix too. The miter? Well, get the best one with the saw you can, but you will end up buying an after market one anyhow (unless you go really high end). And you will also find that making sleds will make your miter cuts be more accurate.
The riving knife discussion is almost endless. Yes it is safer. Of course it is. Until it makes a cut stop becaues the board pinches too much before the rive. It's happened to all of us. Not common, but it's there. Becomes scary sometimes. Personally I use the rive sometimes (usually on small kerf blades) but for the most part it is not on the saw. Don't get me wrong. YOU WILL experience kick backs without a riving knife. It's almost inevitable. And yes, your fingers will be in danger if you aren't using proper push blocks when doing so. And sometimes even using them.
Long story short. Get the best powered and most accurate TS you can afford in your current budget. Be very mindfull of safety, not just in the saw usage but also in the saw purchase (used or new). And always, always, pay attention to yourself and how you are doing the cut. What you are cutting, how you are making that cut and where your fingers, hands, other body parts, are in relation to the item you are cutting and the tool you are doing it with.
My primary input has not changed. I think all woodworkers except possibly those who will only do small crafty type things should start with a track saw and not a table saw. They are safer, cheaper (although there is a wide range of prices just like table saws), and much easier to do accurate work with on large pieces of solid wood or sheet goods. Handling is far easier for big bits too which tends to turn into accuracy. I will also say that people who cannot get accurate results with a track saw need some more tips on how to use it. They will do extremely accurate work, equal to a table saw. But not on really small pieces of wood.
I bought a table saw first like most of us, however. Festools might have existed then but no track saws in my price range were available. I've always used 110V saws and the only limitation I see with them is your blade needs to be clean and sharp and appropriate for what you are doing. If you do that, you can cut 3+ inches of hardwood with a 1/8th kerf blade as I have done many times. Wood that warps back into the blade can be an issue but that and using an appropriate blade are the only issues I've experienced in at least 4 decades of experience. Universal motors (motors with brushes) are noisier and their speed is not as constant but I used a Ryobi BT3100 for over a decade which is a belt drive universal motor saw with a good fence. An induction motor is my preference but I would not choose the saw on that basis. I would choose the saw based upon the fence. It is one of the best features of my PCS (Sawstop) and was a major reason I used the Ryobi for so long. Being able to set the fence based upon a scale or a measurement of one end of the fence and lock it down and know that it will be parallel to the blade is very, very nice. If you are willing to give that up and check both ends of the fence and fiddle with it for each cut a lot of saws could work. I would not. You can check the fence on a display model but most will be badly setup. If the store will let you adjust it and then see if it will stay parallel it would be worth doing in my opinion.
I bought a table saw first like most of us, however. Festools might have existed then but no track saws in my price range were available. I've always used 110V saws and the only limitation I see with them is your blade needs to be clean and sharp and appropriate for what you are doing. If you do that, you can cut 3+ inches of hardwood with a 1/8th kerf blade as I have done many times. Wood that warps back into the blade can be an issue but that and using an appropriate blade are the only issues I've experienced in at least 4 decades of experience. Universal motors (motors with brushes) are noisier and their speed is not as constant but I used a Ryobi BT3100 for over a decade which is a belt drive universal motor saw with a good fence. An induction motor is my preference but I would not choose the saw on that basis. I would choose the saw based upon the fence. It is one of the best features of my PCS (Sawstop) and was a major reason I used the Ryobi for so long. Being able to set the fence based upon a scale or a measurement of one end of the fence and lock it down and know that it will be parallel to the blade is very, very nice. If you are willing to give that up and check both ends of the fence and fiddle with it for each cut a lot of saws could work. I would not. You can check the fence on a display model but most will be badly setup. If the store will let you adjust it and then see if it will stay parallel it would be worth doing in my opinion.
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