:BangHead: A friend of Leigh Ann's wants me to build her some steps for the front of her house. How do I do this? She said she would pay me, so I want to do a good job. Should I use pressure treated lumber?
Need Advise on Steps
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Michael,
First off, if you are going to make them out of wood, then "yes" I would recommend that you use pressure treated lumber.
Before you get started you will need to take few measurements to determine how wide the steps will be and the overall height from the ground to the porch and how much horizontal space you have to work with coming out form the porch. These measurement will help you determine the number of stringers you will need based on the overall width and also to determine the rise and run for each step. I am sure someone will be able to give a more specific answer on the code requirements for the construction of steps. Depending on how high the steps will go will also determine if you need to add a hand rail.
D L
First off, if you are going to make them out of wood, then "yes" I would recommend that you use pressure treated lumber.
Before you get started you will need to take few measurements to determine how wide the steps will be and the overall height from the ground to the porch and how much horizontal space you have to work with coming out form the porch. These measurement will help you determine the number of stringers you will need based on the overall width and also to determine the rise and run for each step. I am sure someone will be able to give a more specific answer on the code requirements for the construction of steps. Depending on how high the steps will go will also determine if you need to add a hand rail.
D L
I would use PT lumber if there is any chance it will be exposed to the elements (outside). How many steps are needed, do you have to end at a certain spot to match to a walk, what is the width, and will there be a landing?
Typical exterior steps are 7" rise, and 12" run, with a handrail at 30-32".
Depending on the number of steps you might be able to get pre-cut stringers, that make everything much simpler. Space them 16-24" on center and I recommend using 2X lumber for the treads (less bounce and sag).
Dave
Typical exterior steps are 7" rise, and 12" run, with a handrail at 30-32".
Depending on the number of steps you might be able to get pre-cut stringers, that make everything much simpler. Space them 16-24" on center and I recommend using 2X lumber for the treads (less bounce and sag).
Dave
Three steps, no landing, (unless you mean the ground) she does want handrails. Do I need to put the posts in the ground? I figure I'll make them 3' wide and use three stringers. 2x12 for the stringer and probably for the tread also. My father before he died built decks and houses and stuff, so I have seen him do it, but never by myself. To figure rise and run you need some math. For example 3 steps 3' high 3' depth. Total height (th) divided by the # of steps gives you your rise 36"/3 = 12" rise. 36" depth/3 = 12" run. Like I said, I know the mechanics of building steps, but kinda timid doing it. The hand rails have me allittle confused, any more advise would be helpful. Thank you for your input. I just dont want to mess up.:slap:
I would recommend a landing if the steps are going up to a door. It is a lot easier to open a door standing on a landing, and safer also. I would stick with a 7-7.5" rise for the steps, that works out well with nominal lumber sizes. Or the math way of 2R + T = 26 . I would consider using two 2x6 instead of 1 2x12 for the tread, less likely to cup and trap water and the gap in using 2 boards helps drainage. I would sink the posts in the ground in concrete, measure up 30-32" from the top of the top and bottom tread for the handrail top. Buy precut 2x2 ballusters at the BORG to save time, and space them with a scrap piece of 2x4. Check on the pre-cut stringers also, there is alot of wasted wood when handcutting stringers, it's a crying shame, all those little useless triangles :crybaby2:
Dave
Dave
I dont think she has alot of cash to spend, and her old steps didnt have a landing. I will run the idea by her and see what she says. Anyone have some pictures? Visualization helps me alot.
Here something on deck steps but they are the same as your application
http://www.greatlandscapingideas.com/deckstairs.htm
http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35720678
HTH, Dave
http://www.greatlandscapingideas.com/deckstairs.htm
http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35720678
HTH, Dave
There are a couple of forumlas for steps. Dave offered one of them for the single step... there is another for the overall stringer. As Dave suggested, something along the line of a 7" riser is good. Take the overall rise and divide by 7. Take the whole number part of the answer and divide that into the total rise. That is the rise for each step. The risers must all be the same height, within 3/8". The bottom riser on exterior stairs can be shorter than the others
Dave also suggested an 11" tread. That is a very comfortable tread size and you can do the same type of calculation for treads. If you know where the steps will end, measure from there to the porch or door or wherever you're ending up. That horizontal measurement is the total run. If the steps don't have to end up in a specific place, do the math like you did for the risers; guess at the tread... 10.5" or 11" and divide that into the total run.
If the treads are less than 11", they have to have a nosing between 3/4" an 1 1/4". That means the tread has to extend beyond the riser by that much.
If there are three or more risers, you must have a handrail on at least one side. The top of the hand rail must be between 32" and 38" above the tread, measured vertically from the tread nosing.
Yes, do put the posts for the railing into the ground and put concrete around them as Dave suggests. The railing must withstand 200lbs of lateral force (fat guy leaning against it).
If you use 5/4 deck boards for your treads, you can have 24" of clear span between the stringers. You can go to 30" if you use 2X material instead.
Front steps have to be at least 36" wide... I think 42" is a better measure. Makes the front of the house look more luxurious. I also like closed risers.
This is taken from the state code. Local ordinances might be tighter. Hope this helps. Be happy to chat with you on the phone if you'd like any additional.
Ray
Dave also suggested an 11" tread. That is a very comfortable tread size and you can do the same type of calculation for treads. If you know where the steps will end, measure from there to the porch or door or wherever you're ending up. That horizontal measurement is the total run. If the steps don't have to end up in a specific place, do the math like you did for the risers; guess at the tread... 10.5" or 11" and divide that into the total run.
If the treads are less than 11", they have to have a nosing between 3/4" an 1 1/4". That means the tread has to extend beyond the riser by that much.
If there are three or more risers, you must have a handrail on at least one side. The top of the hand rail must be between 32" and 38" above the tread, measured vertically from the tread nosing.
Yes, do put the posts for the railing into the ground and put concrete around them as Dave suggests. The railing must withstand 200lbs of lateral force (fat guy leaning against it).
If you use 5/4 deck boards for your treads, you can have 24" of clear span between the stringers. You can go to 30" if you use 2X material instead.
Front steps have to be at least 36" wide... I think 42" is a better measure. Makes the front of the house look more luxurious. I also like closed risers.
This is taken from the state code. Local ordinances might be tighter. Hope this helps. Be happy to chat with you on the phone if you'd like any additional.
Ray
Some additional notes...
As was suggested earlier in this thread, do use pressure treated lumber. And since you're using PT lumber, you have to use hot-dipped galvanized connectors.
Screw the treads and risers to the stringers. You can use the poly coated screws. They're generally brown and blend in to the wood. Screws are MUCH better than nails for this application. As as appearance thingie... make sure the screws are all in line. Crooked screw lines are VERY noticable.
Consider putting a strap board across the bottom of the stringers to tie them together and keep them on the same level. Put some solid concrete blocks under this strap. The top of the strap should be at ground level, so it, and the blocks are hidden.
Use 5/8" carriage bolts to tie the rail posts to the stringers.
Ray
As was suggested earlier in this thread, do use pressure treated lumber. And since you're using PT lumber, you have to use hot-dipped galvanized connectors.
Screw the treads and risers to the stringers. You can use the poly coated screws. They're generally brown and blend in to the wood. Screws are MUCH better than nails for this application. As as appearance thingie... make sure the screws are all in line. Crooked screw lines are VERY noticable.
Consider putting a strap board across the bottom of the stringers to tie them together and keep them on the same level. Put some solid concrete blocks under this strap. The top of the strap should be at ground level, so it, and the blocks are hidden.
Use 5/8" carriage bolts to tie the rail posts to the stringers.
Ray
M
McRabbet
Michael -- Here is a fairly good tutorial on getting steps to come out correctly. It is part of "How to Design, Plan and Build a Deck" from Lowes. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Build/BldDck.html&rn=RightNavFiles/rightNavHowTo#9
Short narrated clips detail stringer layout and cutting. Hope this helps.
Rob
Short narrated clips detail stringer layout and cutting. Hope this helps.
Rob
Dave,
You had the right stuff in your posts too. I just added a bit of extra gorp. Sum of two risers plus a tread is one of the general rules. The other biggie is the rise times the tread should be between 72" and 76".
I think there's more in the code requirements about stairs and railings than on anything else.
Back in the bad ol' days, you could only move from apprentice to journeyman after you built a set of stairs that was acceptable to the master.
Ray
You had the right stuff in your posts too. I just added a bit of extra gorp. Sum of two risers plus a tread is one of the general rules. The other biggie is the rise times the tread should be between 72" and 76".
I think there's more in the code requirements about stairs and railings than on anything else.
Back in the bad ol' days, you could only move from apprentice to journeyman after you built a set of stairs that was acceptable to the master.
Ray
J
jeff...
We I failed then because I cheat. I did all this math once when I built my deck a few years ago 3 set of stairs and also a long run (16') of stairs up to the second story of my shop. I made a stringer pattern and use it any time I got stairs to build. I cheat !!! :lol:
Rob,
That's a great pointer. The instructions there even show how to use a carpenter's square. Good stuff. Thanks.
If anyone does cut their own stringers, rather than buy the precut ones from someplace like Lowes, make sure you use 2 X 12 material. That way, when you make the cut, you'll still have 4" or more from the crotch of the cut to the far side of the stringer.
Ray
Jeff,
That's not cheating, that's efficiency
. By the way, we did the same. We made a couple of templates like that for our Habitat for Humanity volunteers to follow. We keep them in the tool trailer and very few of us are allowed to lay out a stringer any way other than tracing from these templates. We even painted them white and used a large marker to write the directions all over them.Ray
I dont have any information that has been already said,,but make sure you take before and after pics,,that may help. Be blessed bro
Dave,Here something on deck steps but they are the same as your application
http://www.greatlandscapingideas.com/deckstairs.htm
http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35720678
HTH, Dave
Building stairs is always a bit confusing. and it's compounded by the millions of code regulations about stairs and railings. These references and their drawings make things pretty clear. Thanks for the pointers to these sites. I bookmarked these for future reference.
Ray
I happened across this
http://www.arcways.com/IRC2003.pdf
IMHO, it's a pretty good distilled version of the 2003 IRC as it pertains to stairs.
http://www.arcways.com/IRC2003.pdf
IMHO, it's a pretty good distilled version of the 2003 IRC as it pertains to stairs.
Chris,
That's about the best explanation of stair codes I've ever seen. I saved the file to disk and printed it. I'm going ot share this one with my Saturday / build friends. Thank you.
Ray
That's about the best explanation of stair codes I've ever seen. I saved the file to disk and printed it. I'm going ot share this one with my Saturday / build friends. Thank you.
Ray
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