Would like an opinion on measurements for stiles and rails when making paneled kitchen cabinets. My ff on the cabinet will be 2". Would you ever see them FF more than 2" or the door panels more than 2"? Lorraine
measurements of door front stile and rails to cabinet
- Thread starter lwhughes149
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A very wise man once told me "keep the math easy". I think that a 2" FF looks right. As for the doors, 2 3/8" wide makes the math easy. Most rail/style sets cut a 3/8" deep McRabbit® for the panel to sit in. Insert the 1/4" spaceballs and that makes your panel size = total door size - 4.5". Clear as mud?
Lorraine, I struggled with this also when I set out to build my backbench. My inspiration was a recent article in Fine Woodworking by Scott Gibson Craftsman-Style Kitchen Cabinets.
He generally used 1 1/2" for the faceframes and his doors had 2" stiles and top rails, and 3" bottom rails. I took a poll on NCWW and The Wood Works and came up with similar dimensions, but the bottom line, as he states in his article, is to use whatever looks good to you (regardless of the style you choose). Pics of my cabinets are in a various NCWW threads (no gallery).
He generally used 1 1/2" for the faceframes and his doors had 2" stiles and top rails, and 3" bottom rails. I took a poll on NCWW and The Wood Works and came up with similar dimensions, but the bottom line, as he states in his article, is to use whatever looks good to you (regardless of the style you choose). Pics of my cabinets are in a various NCWW threads (no gallery).
I have historically done 2 1/4 inch face frames (just because, and because I can get a #0 biscuit in it), but the 2 3/8 Chris mentions makes sense as I hadn't thought of it..... Alan's cab's and the article in FWW look very good to me as well. My only recommendation would be to not go less than 2", the rest I would say is personal preference.
Good information guys. My husband,who normally doesn't come into the shop is very excited about the kitchen cabinet project and has started lending a hand. He thinks we can use brads to attach the faceframes to the cabinet and not use the biscuits. I am leaning towards the 0 biscuits. Of course he sees me as the woodworker so he will be happy with my choice. Any thoughts on the brads? They are small but would have to be filled with woodfiller and be seen. The wood is cherry with a dark finish. I think the 2 3/8 inch would be good, think I would also like to keep the math simple. Thanks again and I will let you know how it comes along. Will also have progress pics. Lorraine
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McRabbet
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Lorraine, it is a personal choice as others have said, but one factor is the type of door you plan. If I am making half or full overlay doors, I usually use 2" face frames and 2-1/2" door rails and stiles. With inset doors like those that Alan has used in his back bench cabinets, I'd agree with his choice of narrower widths. And as he illustrated, door rails and stiles do not have to be the same widths.
Rob
Rob
It's really what you like, when I made the rised panel doors for my kitchen the boss (wife) wanted them as small as possable so I made them 1 3/4
I think they would have looked better a little larger, but the boss is always right:lol::lol:
I think they would have looked better a little larger, but the boss is always right:lol::lol:
I would attach the face frame with pocket holes. No nail holes is a beautiful thing. The Kreg jig isn't cheap, around $100, but it is so sweet you will never understand how you lived without it. For the last two sets of cabinets I built, I drilled the pocket holes on the insides of the cabinet walls for all the areas that the outside panels were exposed. I even used it to put the face frames together.
If you do decide to go with brads, I would putty the holes after staining with the soft putty stuff. I have not had good luck color matching the famowood, plastic wood, or wood patch. I can get it so so on oak and so so on Mahogany, but I have never done well with it on cherry.
As far as brad size, if you are using 3/4 inch face frames, I would think you would want a minimum 1 1/2 inch long brad.
My .02 for what it's worth.
If you do decide to go with brads, I would putty the holes after staining with the soft putty stuff. I have not had good luck color matching the famowood, plastic wood, or wood patch. I can get it so so on oak and so so on Mahogany, but I have never done well with it on cherry.
As far as brad size, if you are using 3/4 inch face frames, I would think you would want a minimum 1 1/2 inch long brad.
My .02 for what it's worth.
brads are easy...common...and, IMHO, look amateur. I think, in the long run, you will be dissappinted if you use visable fastners. No matter how well you match putty/filler YOU will see the holes. You can do it like a pro:eusa_clap :eusa_clap Just my opinion, though, and you know what they say about opinions..........
Another thing to consider, IMHO, is to use face frame styles of half your normal width where two cabinets will be butted together. This keeps the spacing the same on end cabinets and where two join together. If your going to do this you might want to use either 2 1/4" or 2 1/2' to make the half width frames more easily.
I have built quite a few cabinets and been thru several techniques.
As far as measurements, I have used different variations, and my conclusion is what ever looks appealing to YOUR eye.
My last set had 2" stiles and Rails with 2 3/8" face frame.
I have also used allot of techniques to join face frames and attaching face frames. I agree forego the idea of face nailing/brad nailing the face frame to the box. I used to take the time to dado out the back side of the face frame to fit over the box, but now I used the Pocket hole system.
GLue and screw.
On cabinets that are joined to each other pocket holes on the outside of the box. Where the the outside of the cabinet is exposed, as in the last cabinet in a run, put the pocket holes on the inside.
Just my thoughts.
wish you luck.
As far as measurements, I have used different variations, and my conclusion is what ever looks appealing to YOUR eye.
My last set had 2" stiles and Rails with 2 3/8" face frame.
I have also used allot of techniques to join face frames and attaching face frames. I agree forego the idea of face nailing/brad nailing the face frame to the box. I used to take the time to dado out the back side of the face frame to fit over the box, but now I used the Pocket hole system.
GLue and screw.
On cabinets that are joined to each other pocket holes on the outside of the box. Where the the outside of the cabinet is exposed, as in the last cabinet in a run, put the pocket holes on the inside.
Just my thoughts.
wish you luck.
Well, because I am a pro, I guess I will have to leave the brad gun on the shelf. I will use tongue and groove to attach the ff together and either use the 0 biscuits or invest in the jig for the holes and screws. PappyJ offered his ff biscuit jointer but I have the DeWalt and can use a 0 so that would be fine. I thank all for the suggestions and helpful info and will view this often until I find myself deep into the kitchen cabinet project. Rest assured, I will be back with lots of questions. There is no doubt that I couldn't tackle this project if I didn't have you folks to help me out. Thanks again. Lorraine
Or you can get snazzy
:eusa_danc
I apologize for the truely horrendous quality of the photo, but you should be able to discern that all of the stiles are the same width. "Mini panels" - abeit true raised panels - separate adjoing stiles. Stiles are 2.25"
This particular piece is the drop-front portion of a computer desk.
-Mark
Chris has it nailed!!!!!!!!! Keep your math easy... that is my rule.
Face frames are all 2" unless they are uppers and then I make the top rail 4" for crown molding. For the doors I always make the rails and styles 2 3/8" wide. Since your cope and stick bit cuts a 3/8" groove that returns your math back to an even 2" for when you are figuring door widths. This simplifies things greatly.
We've already talked about my case construction method so I'm not going to describe it again. If anyone gets into cabinetmaking and using face framed cabinets the sytem I use will save hours of work and result in a higher quality job. It is what the top cabinetmakers use.
John
Face frames are all 2" unless they are uppers and then I make the top rail 4" for crown molding. For the doors I always make the rails and styles 2 3/8" wide. Since your cope and stick bit cuts a 3/8" groove that returns your math back to an even 2" for when you are figuring door widths. This simplifies things greatly.
We've already talked about my case construction method so I'm not going to describe it again. If anyone gets into cabinetmaking and using face framed cabinets the sytem I use will save hours of work and result in a higher quality job. It is what the top cabinetmakers use.
John
Who did you think I was talking about when I said "a very wise man"? :lol:
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