Euro hinges / adjustability

[Bas]

I built the frames for my doors today (all 8 of 'em), using a rail & stile bit. I cut the rails 3/4" wider than the required width to account for the tenon on the end (3/8" on each side). Unfortunately, I didn't measure the tenon properly. It's not 3/8", it's about 1/32" longer.

Don't ask me why. Who makes a router bit that produce a tenon that's 13/32"? :BangHead:

Anyway, 1/32" isn't much, but 1/32" on both sides of the rail adds up to 1/16. Incidentally, that's the amount the Blum hinges I got can be adjusted horizontally. So theoretically, I should be OK. I can live with the overlay not being perfect, the eye will never see that. My concern is that I have zero room for error with the horizontal adjustment already maxed out.

The alternative is to cut and route 16 new rails (I haven't glued things up yet). Not the end of the world (certainly a lot less material than the stiles), but it's a lot of work. I might be able to reuse the short rails for a second set of cabinets and make the face frame opening 1/8" smaller, but still....

Looking at the installation instructions, the cup of the hinge is located 1/8" from the edge. Could I simply move it 1/32" over to give me just a bit of play? Or am I overcomplicating things?

 

[bobby g]

Bas,

You might end up with the edge of the door scraping the face frame but if you do, you can probably max out the in/out adjustment on the hinge to clear this up. But then you have another zero tolerance trap set. Maybe a mock-up would be a good idea here.

Best,

bobby g

 

[bobby g]

Bas,

I re-read your post. So the doors will be 1/16" narrower than planned? Was the planned overlay 100% full? Less than full is a good design. In any event, I suggest that you cut a door prototype (for size only) out of MDF or PW (watch out for the bogus thickness induced potential problem), install hinges and check it out.

Good Luck,

bobby g

 

[FredP]

are these shop cabs? don't worry bout it. I wouldnt change the location of the hinges. they are designed to work at a certain backset. I was thinking you had a real problem.......:rotflm: the only issue I have ever had with slightly undersized doors is when there is no center style on the cabinet. :thumbs_up

 

[Bas]

Bas,

So the doors will be 1/16" narrower than planned? Was the planned overlay 100% full? Less than full is a good design. In any event, I suggest that you cut a door prototype (for size only) out of MDF or PW (watch out for the bogus thickness induced potential problem), install hinges and check it out.

Right. The doors came out 1/16" too narrow. The overlay is 1/2" all round.

are these shop cabs? don't worry bout it. I wouldnt change the location of the hinges. they are designed to work at a certain backset. I was thinking you had a real problem.......:rotflm: the only issue I have ever had with slightly undersized doors is when there is no center style on the cabinet. :thumbs_up

Anything you don't do for a living and doesn't result in a leaky pipe is not a real problem These cabinets do not have a center style, so the doors being undersized matters.

I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and cut new rails. :eusa_booh I can reuse the old ones for something else, and I have enough material that this won't take long. Most of the work is setting up the router bit again. Valuable lesson learned here...

 

[FredP]

Right. The doors came out 1/16" too narrow. The overlay is 1/2" all round.


Anything you don't do for a living and doesn't result in a leaky pipe is not a real problem These cabinets do not have a center style, so the doors being undersized matters.

I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and cut new rails. :eusa_booh I can reuse the old ones for something else, and I have enough material that this won't take long. Most of the work is setting up the router bit again. Valuable lesson learned here...

in that case.... do you have the hinges already? if not get 7/16" overlay hinges.

 

[FredP]

after looking at my setup I believe you can change the backset slightly to achieve your goal. however if binding occurs [I have observed this] you can take a block plane to the edge the hinges are attached to and chamfer the back side. If you want to come by today I can show you what I am talking about. [spraying 8 doors as we speak...:gar-Bi

 

[McRabbet]

Bas -- IMHO, you are making a mountain out of a molehill! If you can see the difference between 1/2" overlay on the hinge side and 7/16" on the opposite side of the door, I'd be amazed -- particularly with the gaps between your cabinets. Let it go and use the hinge adjustment to the extent you can. If these were inset doors, then it is a different issue.

 

[Bas]

Bas -- IMHO, you are making a mountain out of a molehill! If you can see the difference between 1/2" overlay on the hinge side and 7/16" on the opposite side of the door, I'd be amazed -- particularly with the gaps between your cabinets. Let it go and use the hinge adjustment to the extent you can. If these were inset doors, then it is a different issue.

Oh, I wasn't worried about the difference in overlay. Like I said, the eye will never see the difference between 7/16" and 1/2". The problem is the gap in the middle. I don't have a center stile between the two doors (stuff is always getting stuck behind such a stile, especially with a relatively narrow cabinet), so with the cumulative error and the gap I had planned orginally I was approaching 1/4".

Anyway, it took a bit, but I got the new rails ripped, crosscut and routed. This project is already taking 3-4 times as long as planned, so what's another evening of fun in the shop?

 

[bobby g]

Anyway, it took a bit, but I got the new rails ripped, crosscut and routed. This project is already taking 3-4 times as long as planned, so what's another evening of fun in the shop?

That's within my normal estimating bandwidth. Good work!

Seriously, you made the decision based on what you wanted the end result to be... I totally agree.

Best,

bobby g

 

[bdjessup]

I did this one time and scratched my head for a while just like you. Just cut a 1/4" strip of same face frame wood and glue up the opening edge on each side. Sand well and you will never see it. The opening is now 1/2 smaller....

Brian

 

[FredP]

you certainly went to a lot of trouble for the price of 4 hinges.:dontknow: I get one piece blum hinges [38N] for around a dollar each and they come in 3/8 7/16 1/2 5/8 3/4 and full overlay.:roll: 7/16 overlay hinges would have given you an 1/8 and adjustability.:gar-Bi

 

[bdjessup]

Fred, I may be wrong but, his problem is the gap between the doors not the overlay. At least that's the problem I had with my project years ago. There wasn't enough adjustment in the hinge
no matter what overlay I got. My problem was opening VS door width same as his I think.

:gar-La; Brian

 

[FredP]

Fred, I may be wrong but, his problem is the gap between the doors not the overlay. At least that's the problem I had with my project years ago. There wasn't enough adjustment in the hinge
no matter what overlay I got. My problem was opening VS door width same as his I think.

:gar-La; Brian

less overlay plus same size door = less gap between doors. each side would be moved closer to center by 1/16":gar-Bi 1/4" between becomes 1/8" between and adjust from there.

 

[Bas]

I did this one time and scratched my head for a while just like you. Just cut a 1/4" strip of same face frame wood and glue up the opening edge on each side. Sand well and you will never see it. The opening is now 1/2 smaller....

Brian

That thought occurred to me too. Unfortunately, the second coat of finish is currently drying on the face frames. See if I ever try to work efficiently again

you certainly went to a lot of trouble for the price of 4 hinges.:dontknow: I get one piece blum hinges [38N] for around a dollar each and they come in 3/8 7/16 1/2 5/8 3/4 and full overlay.:roll: 7/16 overlay hinges would have given you an 1/8 and adjustability.:gar-Bi

Well, it was a bit more than that. Four cabinets x four hingers = 16 hinges. Still not a lot of dollars by comparison, since I could use them elsewhere. Then again, I can reuse these rails too. I guess it all comes down to how anal I am about looking at those doors and thinking "ARG! It looks OK but I know I messed up those doors". There's no cure for that. Rumor has it that buying lots of tools helps, but so far it hasn't :tool:

less overlay plus same size door = less gap between doors. each side would be moved closer to center by 1/16":gar-Bi 1/4" between becomes 1/8" between and adjust from there.

Right. By going with a 7/16" overlay, I'd gain a total of 1/8". Between that and the hinge adjustability, it would have done the job to close the gap in the middle.